Question about sideplate numbering convention

[Chichaco98]

WWII vintage P.08s made by Mauser have a convention for numbering sideplates. If the pistol's serial number is 1234, the inside of the plate should be stamped 13, the first two digits of the serial number plus one. Did other manufacturers follow the same convention?

What should I expect to see on the inside of a sideplate taken from a WWI vintage DWM or Erfurt Luger?

[DonVoigt]

I don't know about Erfurt, but the first 2 digits of a 4 digit serial will be inside a WWI DWM side plate.

[Lugerdoc]

I disagree with Don V above. DWM military side plate don't have the first 2 digits of the serial inside. If any number at all, there may be a single digit inspector's mark. Tom

[mrerick]

To my knowledge, the only manufacturer to do this was Mauser. They did it inconsistently. Some side plates have the first one or two digits of the serial number. Others more commonly have the first one or two digits plus one. Some have no number inside. For example, my sn 715g gun has "8" stamped inside the sideplate.

The stamp I have seen inside DWM side plates is the worker mark as Tom mentioned above. If your find serial number related digits in a plate on a DWM it's likely a Mauser made plate.

The interior numbering must have been plant process workflow related in some way. It would allow separation of more than 100 plates from their fitted pistols for salt bluing in larger batches, which must have been more efficient during high production volumes. My Mauser Lugers with plates that are not numbered inside were made during periods of lower production volume.

[DonVoigt]

You guys missed this revelation( maybe on the other luger board).
I'll find the thread and add a link to it.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...e+plate+number

See the picture in post # 6

I did not believe it either; but just spot check your matching DWM military lugers. They are there on the inside, bottom ledge.

Keoki pointed this out, and by jimminy - he was/is correct as usual.

I might agree with the statement about "all", as I have not looked at all side plates; but the ones of mine I checked do have them. Not talking about commercial pistols, just military.

[George Anderson]

DWM P08 side plates are numbered on the inside starting with 1911 dated pistols which are numbered in the military fashion. Early 1911 dated DWMs that are numbered in the commercial fashion are not numbered on the inside. All DWM artilleries are numbered on the inside as are 1914 Navies.

[Mac Cat]

I have 1918 Erfurt, S/N 6364 u
The outside of the plate has "64".
Inside the plate on the far left side, is the number "6" in super tiny font, and "6" in larger font.
Almost looks like they were experimenting and didn't like the first tiny "6".

6
6

[DonVoigt]

Thanks George.

To the "skeptics"-
please check one or several of your DWM military lugers as George describes.

If you would report the date and presence or absence of the inside side plate numbers it would be helpful. Of course only pistols with matching outside numbers on the side plate would be significant.

There are no doubt some incorrectly "restored" pistols, and some replacement side plates with only out side numbers matching.

[Chichaco98]

Thanks to all who have replied. Gotta love this forum. I learn something every time I visit. Still wondering about Erfurt.

[tharpo]

The inside of my 1917 artillery Sn 7412a has a "G". Or maybe it's a 6.

Tom

[Edward Tinker]

The 6 you see inside of some plates (not talking Simson here) are makers marks, as they seem to not represent anything. That said, there has been speculation, since you seem to see a '6' more than some numbers IMO.

I have always been told and read that Erfurt did not number them on the inside - nor did Simson

I will look at a few DWM's I have, however, since I collected Police pistols first, they could have gotten their replacements from DWM or Mauser and so they would be un-numbered. This is assuming its not a part that is marked as an armorers part. I know that I have an Erfurt sideplate that is acceptance marked - and of course have heard of 42 marked (Mauser) but if they ordered a bunch, would they be accepted on the way out or at the police armory?

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by tharpo

The inside of my 1917 artillery Sn 7412a has a "G". Or maybe it's a 6.

Tom

You are not looking in the right place. The numbers are on the bottom edge of the side plate interior. They are damn near impossible to see but they are there.

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

You are not looking in the right place. The numbers are on the bottom edge of the side plate interior. They are damn near impossible to see but they are there.

Seems like a heck of a pain to mark them in the first place?

Even on 1917 and 1918 Geo?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Seems like a heck of a pain to mark them in the first place?

Even on 1917 and 1918 Geo?

Not if one was finishing more than 100 side plates in a batch.

Without the inside two digits, one could not tell which pistol it was fitted to.

The very same reason Mauser marked their side plates inside; only mauser marked them on the flat side, not the bottom ledge where the lever pin locks in.

For those who didn't follow the link, here is the picture mentioned above with the inside DWM numbers circled:

[tharpo]

Oh look, a #74 !!

[DonVoigt]

Yes, a 74!

They tend to be hard to see; one required quite a bit of cleaning to see- the numbers tend to fill up with crud and oil and "disappear".

[spacecoast]

My 1913 Erfurt does not have a partial serial number inside the plate. The plate itself appears to be marked with an "A" and the lever has a small Crown B (similar to the Erfurt stamp on the outside of the plate to the left of the serial).

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

My 1913 Erfurt does not have a partial serial number inside the plate. The plate itself appears to be marked with an "A" and the lever has a small Crown B (similar to the Erfurt stamp on the outside of the plate to the left of the serial).

Thanks.
Erfurt plates require more input.
Neither George nor I said Erfurt plates had numbers inside.

I have not found any similar numbers on the few matching Erfurt pistols I have; an occasional letter or number yes, but no "pattern" of use. The one Simson plate I have has no number inside either.

My preliminary conclusion is that Erfurt did Not number plates on the inside.

This may be logical, as Erfurt production volume was only 1/2 or so of DWM production and thus it may not have been an issue for them; or their batch process was designed around finishing less than 100 plates per lot.

[spacecoast]

Neither George nor I said Erfurt plates had numbers inside.

I was just responding to the OP's inquiry about Erfurts in posts #1 and #9, nobody seemed to address that. In post #2 you said you didn't know about them.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

I was just responding to the OP's inquiry about Erfurts in posts #1 and #9, nobody seemed to address that. In post #2 you said you didn't know about them.

Figured that & why I said thanks and we need more Erfurt input.

Seems lots of folks want to know the answers, but are not willing to put forth any effort to look at pistols they have.

If all the readers of this post only checked one or two pistols, we would have a lot better idea of the situation, whether DWM or Erfurt, or Simson- all info would be good to have!