"Interesting" Rear sight

Brien · 07-26-2016, 11:46 PM

Hi Gents,

Has anyone seen this type of sight on a Luger? It's a v notch that flips, what is the purpose of that?

It is "machined" (if that's the right term) in the toggle, sort of like a navy toggle is made differently from a regular. Any input would be highly appreciated.

DonVoigt · 07-26-2016, 11:53 PM

Why?
For shooting at 2 different distances.
Would it work, might require re-setting after each shot; I see nothing to hold it "up".

Brien · 07-27-2016, 12:22 AM

Don,
The first photo is the sight in the middle of travel to show how it is attached and pivots. It flips down left or right (looking at photo 1) very tightly. I can't find anything like it in the reference books I have yet.

G.T. · 07-27-2016, 12:37 AM

Very neat and resourceful! I love stuff like that, simple but effective.. just needs some refinement... But, it's real potential would be in different height on the different sides?...

.... neat and interesting stuff.... GT....

Edward Tinker · 07-27-2016, 12:38 AM

Brien, they are saying its a homemade rear sight, well done but not factory.

DavidJayUden · 07-27-2016, 07:21 AM

Welcome back, G. T.
dju

DonVoigt · 07-27-2016, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brien

Don,
The first photo is the sight in the middle of travel to show how it is attached and pivots. It flips down left or right (looking at photo 1) very tightly. I can't find anything like it in the reference books I have yet.

Yes, I see that; but if fliped forward, it will flip backwards under recoil and rotation-unless it has a really strong spring hidden somewhere invisible!

Lugerdoc · 07-27-2016, 10:15 AM

Brien, I've only seen this type rear sight on some German commerical rifles & shotguns. Those are usually under spring tension and difficult to move. TH

John Sabato · 07-27-2016, 10:23 AM

It appears to operates in a similar manner to the original M-1 carbine rear sight... but I agree that I don't see a spring to hold it in one position or the other.

Maybe there is a ball detent under the sight built into the dovetail?

Does the sight "click" into place when you flip it back and forth? or is it just "loose"?

rhuff · 07-27-2016, 01:48 PM

That is a very interesting rear sight on this Luger. I have never seen one like it installed on a Luger. Thanks for posting. Have you tried firing the Luger with this sight setup?

wlyon · 07-27-2016, 10:21 PM

These flip sights were common on European double rifles. I have an old foreign double 44cal and 12 guage with these sights. Bill

John Sabato · 07-28-2016, 10:23 AM

Okay... after reading everyone else's thoughts on this matter... here are mine FWIW:

• This is a one-of-a-kind custom rear sight
• By a European Gunsmith (the name "Herbe Werle" comes to mind...
• Either for himself (Self-gratification on creation of his concept), OR
• Done at the request of a wealthy client (probably because he a had a rifle that had similar rear sight)
• The work was not cheap because it likely involved a lot of experimentation and testing
• Other than its uniqueness, I don't think it adds any particular value or advantage to the gun.

That's my $0.02

Brien · 08-01-2016, 03:18 AM

Ed,

It flips as strong as an m1 flip sight. It takes a bit of effort to move it. I haven't fired it so I have no idea if it stays in position.
Quite likely it does judging by the effort to move it. I just found the sight to be intriguing. It is a parts pistol. .30 cal. Frame and barrel match. Though it started out as a 1939 model. Skillfully ground off. If hold it to the light you just make out the 639. The breach and extractor match but the center link and toggle do not. If you guys would like better pictures just let me know and u will post them.

My plan was to take this piece and drop in a navy toggle. If this is A keep able oddity I have to work on another frame. Having handled a navy, I think I prefer the shorter barrels. The 4 3/4 is.just short enough and long enough to make mini navy shooter.

In the near future I'll work on a range report for it. Everyone's enthusiasm and support do a great job at helping with any buyers regret. I can buy firearms in short bursts. My clung is about a grand.
BTW
I've taken everyone advice. I have fred Datig book, John walters book,kenyon lugers at random and luger variations.

Cheers you good folk

DonVoigt · 08-01-2016, 09:15 AM

Brien,
Be careful before you start changing things, pretty soon you will have way too much money in this pistol, JMO.

Cheapest/best way to "restore" it is to replace the rear toggle with a "std." one, maybe $30-50.

A navy toggle could cost you $600 to $1000, unless you get really lucky. A repro Navy rear toggle piece with sight is about $400! Then the taller rear sight will not shoot to vertical point of aim with the original front sight.

A .30 matching luger did not start out with a 1939 date, must be something else or else it is likely a parts gun, re- numbered to match. But more better pictures of all markings(close up) would help.

Brien · 08-03-2016, 02:39 PM

Don, it is a parts gun. I'll take some pics and post them. My idea was to make a faux navy shooter for my own personal enjoyment. It is kind of weird that the .30 barrel and receiver match #s on a ex 1939. I guess not TOO odd. Whoever made it either got really lucky or maybe stamped them themselves. Who knows. Pics coming soon.

Ps. To all who read my posts thank you. It's really nice to talk to share with and learn from.

07-26-2016, 11:46 PM	#1
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	"Interesting" Rear sight Hi Gents, Has anyone seen this type of sight on a Luger? It's a v notch that flips, what is the purpose of that? It is "machined" (if that's the right term) in the toggle, sort of like a navy toggle is made differently from a regular. Any input would be highly appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

07-26-2016, 11:53 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Why? For shooting at 2 different distances. Would it work, might require re-setting after each shot; I see nothing to hold it "up". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-27-2016, 12:37 AM	#4
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	rear sight! Very neat and resourceful! I love stuff like that, simple but effective.. just needs some refinement... But, it's real potential would be in different height on the different sides?... .... neat and interesting stuff.... GT....

07-27-2016, 12:38 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Brien, they are saying its a homemade rear sight, well done but not factory. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-27-2016, 10:15 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Brien, I've only seen this type rear sight on some German commerical rifles & shotguns. Those are usually under spring tension and difficult to move. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-27-2016, 12:22 AM	#3
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Don, The first photo is the sight in the middle of travel to show how it is attached and pivots. It flips down left or right (looking at photo 1) very tightly. I can't find anything like it in the reference books I have yet.

07-27-2016, 07:21 AM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Welcome back, G. T. dju

07-27-2016, 10:23 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	It appears to operates in a similar manner to the original M-1 carbine rear sight... but I agree that I don't see a spring to hold it in one position or the other. Maybe there is a ball detent under the sight built into the dovetail? Does the sight "click" into place when you flip it back and forth? or is it just "loose"? Attached Images __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-27-2016, 01:48 PM	#10
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	That is a very interesting rear sight on this Luger. I have never seen one like it installed on a Luger. Thanks for posting. Have you tried firing the Luger with this sight setup?

07-27-2016, 10:21 PM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	These flip sights were common on European double rifles. I have an old foreign double 44cal and 12 guage with these sights. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-28-2016, 10:23 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Okay... after reading everyone else's thoughts on this matter... here are mine FWIW: • This is a one-of-a-kind custom rear sight • By a European Gunsmith (the name "Herbe Werle" comes to mind... • Either for himself (Self-gratification on creation of his concept), OR • Done at the request of a wealthy client (probably because he a had a rifle that had similar rear sight) • The work was not cheap because it likely involved a lot of experimentation and testing • Other than its uniqueness, I don't think it adds any particular value or advantage to the gun. That's my $0.02 Attached Images __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-01-2016, 03:18 AM	#13
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Ed, It flips as strong as an m1 flip sight. It takes a bit of effort to move it. I haven't fired it so I have no idea if it stays in position. Quite likely it does judging by the effort to move it. I just found the sight to be intriguing. It is a parts pistol. .30 cal. Frame and barrel match. Though it started out as a 1939 model. Skillfully ground off. If hold it to the light you just make out the 639. The breach and extractor match but the center link and toggle do not. If you guys would like better pictures just let me know and u will post them. My plan was to take this piece and drop in a navy toggle. If this is A keep able oddity I have to work on another frame. Having handled a navy, I think I prefer the shorter barrels. The 4 3/4 is.just short enough and long enough to make mini navy shooter. In the near future I'll work on a range report for it. Everyone's enthusiasm and support do a great job at helping with any buyers regret. I can buy firearms in short bursts. My clung is about a grand. BTW I've taken everyone advice. I have fred Datig book, John walters book,kenyon lugers at random and luger variations. Cheers you good folk

08-01-2016, 09:15 AM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Brien, Be careful before you start changing things, pretty soon you will have way too much money in this pistol, JMO. Cheapest/best way to "restore" it is to replace the rear toggle with a "std." one, maybe $30-50. A navy toggle could cost you $600 to $1000, unless you get really lucky. A repro Navy rear toggle piece with sight is about $400! Then the taller rear sight will not shoot to vertical point of aim with the original front sight. A .30 matching luger did not start out with a 1939 date, must be something else or else it is likely a parts gun, re- numbered to match. But more better pictures of all markings(close up) would help. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-03-2016, 02:39 PM	#15
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Don, it is a parts gun. I'll take some pics and post them. My idea was to make a faux navy shooter for my own personal enjoyment. It is kind of weird that the .30 barrel and receiver match #s on a ex 1939. I guess not TOO odd. Whoever made it either got really lucky or maybe stamped them themselves. Who knows. Pics coming soon. Ps. To all who read my posts thank you. It's really nice to talk to share with and learn from.