Newbie looking for first Luger advice

karasmer · 12-20-2016, 11:51 PM

Say I just started getting into the hobby and have been shopping. Any advice you guys could give, first I found a 1913 Luger from a local guy, non matching numbers, missing side plate, looks to be in slightly above average condition, worth $700 ? also are online auctions are the way to go vs. a gun shop in regards to getting the best price? Thanks

DonVoigt · 12-21-2016, 12:09 AM

Hi and welcome.

Good questions- last one first, best place to buy your first luger is from a member here - check the WTS forum! JMHO.

$700 for a mismatched luger, with the side plate missing, is too much. $700 for a complete mismatched shooter would be ok, provided you can test fire it.

I would pass, there will be other, better opportunities to buy one.

ithacaartist · 12-21-2016, 12:12 AM

Welcome to the forum, Todd. People sometimes find good prices at those places, and more. But there are no hard and fast rules. In the real world, the best price is where you find it. $700 might be OK for a shooter, but it depends... We'd need to see pics!

If you spend a few bucks on the best reference books you can find before you drop the hammer on a Luger, you will thank yourself from then on. Establishing a target as to what variation you're interested in is also a good thing. You're well-advised to read all the FAQs on this site, follow some discussions, learn what to look for to identify a particular gun. All part of Luger University. I think we all know how it usually goes if classes are skipped and homework is left uncompleted... Thus fortified, you'll be able to jump at something nice when it comes along.

karasmer · 12-21-2016, 03:06 AM

Thanks for the info guys, I have been doing tons of research on these, just read a great thread on fake serial numbers recently posted, was thinking $700 was too steep, I told the gun store owner the last thing I want to find out after buying one is "what the hell did I buy this for" after learning more about them, also the grips on that one seemed like they were loose, rattled ?, how does one tell if the grips are original, I am a WWI history buff so I am looking for one from that era? Thanks

JTD · 12-21-2016, 07:39 AM

If you are looking for a WWI era keep studying, and saving. A matching common variation one can be had in nice shape for a few hundred more if you are patient, and keep your eye open. If you want a shooter, George has a nice Vopo (E. German rework ) in the classifieds now priced in your range. John P.S. Vopo is now sold, I just checked it.

DavidJayUden · 12-21-2016, 08:11 AM

The grips USUALLY have the last 2 numbers of the serial number stamped inside of the grips, but you have to sometimes have to look very hard to see them.
Grips can usually be tightened by placing a tiny fiber or rubber washer on the grip screw prior to insertion.
But if that gun is missing the side plate, it matters not if the grips match the original gun, it's a shooter.
Many of us prefer the WW2 guns for shooters for metal strength reasons.
If you pay $700 for this one, spend $100 plus on the sideplate, you'll already be behind the 8-ball.
But then the search never ends.
dju

Dwight Gruber · 12-21-2016, 10:50 AM

"...if that gun is missing the side plate, it matters not if the grips match the original gun, it's a shooter."

Not even a shooter, because it cannot be shot. A mismatched pistol without a sideplate is worth less than $400, to be broken up for parts.

--Dwight

karasmer · 12-21-2016, 05:11 PM

Still not worth it , put $125 into a side plate for a total of $825 for a shooter?

4 Scale · 12-22-2016, 10:18 AM

As Ithacaartist said, it depends and without pictures it is sort of a guess what this pistol is worth. Reproduction side plates can be had for around $50 and IMO are appropriate for a shooter. A 1913 Luger in above-average condition, non-matching numbers that actually shoots or can be brought into firing condition by adding a side plate, IMO is probably worth $750. The key questions are does it actually shoot, and is it actually in above-average condition.

In general I don't think new Luger owners are well served by purchasing pistols that require work in order to fire. So unless you have some local resource to help you acquire a side plate and fit it to the pistol (my experience is they sometimes require fitting to function properly) you might consider passing on this one.

Re: your other question, IMO online auctions tend to offer the best prices, but also present significant risk esp. to a newbie. If you go the online auction route, use patience, insist on good pictures and a three day inspection, pay via credit card (you may be able to get help from the CC company if the piece is not as described), only bid when the seller has significant transaction quantity and a rating of at least 99%, and don't pay more than $1,100 or so to minimize the chance of an expensive mistake.

Here's an example that meets most of the criteria. I likely won't bid on this because the finish is a bit rough for my tastes but IMO this would be a good shooter:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/605668727 I have no affiliation with the seller, just passing along a pistol I evaluated and decided to pass on.

mrerick · 12-22-2016, 01:13 PM

Don't take on a parts basket for your first Luger.

Properly fitting and adjusting these is quite a specialized skill, and not for amateurs or the general gunsmith. You'd pay a good price for parts, and then be stuck with making it work.

To be clear, what you describe is NOT a bargain, or a good way to get started.

Mac Cat · 12-22-2016, 03:54 PM

Yeah, as a new collector, my advice is to collect some good Luger reference books, first !

karasmer · 12-22-2016, 07:21 PM

Well thanks for all the good advice guys, didn't know a side plate would take some work to actually function on the gun, as for books, still holding out, having trouble finding the best one to start with, seems to be issues with all of them. I think I'll skip that deal unless I can get it for $500 or under, they seemed pretty firm though at $700 (plus tax), that's one advantage to online purchase is no tax but that's about it, getting additional photos and such is like pulling teeth for some, and worse yet some want offers so it's like I'm wasting my time valuing their gun for them.

DonVoigt · 12-22-2016, 08:02 PM

You won't find a single "best" book to start with, and they really don't have "issues" they are just different and cover different areas of collecting.

The older books are interesting but have been superseded by newer books written with more information.

If you can pin down which area you are interested in, we could recommend a book to start with.

karasmer · 12-22-2016, 11:06 PM

Mainly interested in WWI era for starters, would like to know of stamping identifications, what to look for, history,...

DonVoigt · 12-22-2016, 11:10 PM

I would recommend Jan Still's volume: Imperial Lugers.

You won't find more or better info on WWI lugers, IMO.

And about $150 +/- , will save you more than that on your first purchase.

mrerick · 12-23-2016, 12:09 AM

For a bit more, you can get the most thorough study ever done.

Geoff Sturgess' book "The Borshardt and Luger Automatic Pistol"

Get the red covered version from Simpson Ltd in Galesburg, Illinois.

Marc

DonVoigt · 12-23-2016, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

For a bit more, you can get the most thorough study ever done.

Geoff Sturgess' book "The Borshardt and Luger Automatic Pistol"

Get the red covered version from Simpson Ltd in Galesburg, Illinois.

Marc

True,
but it could be quite confusing/overwhelming for one's first luger book.

Better yet, but the dvd version for $35 or $40! You may have to call Simpson to get it, I don't think it is listed on their site.

Geo99 · 12-24-2016, 03:02 PM

Welcome Todd,

If all you want is a mismatched shooter Luger, you should:

1. Put an ad on the WTB page of this forum.
2. Try to buy from someone on this forum - keep an eye on the WTS page.
3. You can also contact Tom Heller to try to find one. He often has shooters to sell at reasonable prices, and if you buy one from him, you can be sure it works. (636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net)

- Geo

Geo99 · 12-24-2016, 03:08 PM

I don't know where you would find Still's Imperial Lugers for $150 - more like $250 and up (I paid $275 for mine as new). But it's definitely a great reference book - highly recommend.

- Geo

DonVoigt · 12-24-2016, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo99

I don't know where you would find Still's Imperial Lugers for $150 - more like $250 and up (I paid $275 for mine as new). But it's definitely a great reference book - highly recommend.

- Geo

You watch the online auction and offers here and Amazon.
I've seen several at that price and a set of four for $500.
Of course right after I bought mine!

12-20-2016, 11:51 PM	#1
karasmer User Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie looking for first Luger advice Say I just started getting into the hobby and have been shopping. Any advice you guys could give, first I found a 1913 Luger from a local guy, non matching numbers, missing side plate, looks to be in slightly above average condition, worth $700 ? also are online auctions are the way to go vs. a gun shop in regards to getting the best price? Thanks

12-21-2016, 12:09 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Hi and welcome. Good questions- last one first, best place to buy your first luger is from a member here - check the WTS forum! JMHO. $700 for a mismatched luger, with the side plate missing, is too much. $700 for a complete mismatched shooter would be ok, provided you can test fire it. I would pass, there will be other, better opportunities to buy one. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-21-2016, 12:12 AM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Welcome to the forum, Todd. People sometimes find good prices at those places, and more. But there are no hard and fast rules. In the real world, the best price is where you find it. $700 might be OK for a shooter, but it depends... We'd need to see pics! If you spend a few bucks on the best reference books you can find before you drop the hammer on a Luger, you will thank yourself from then on. Establishing a target as to what variation you're interested in is also a good thing. You're well-advised to read all the FAQs on this site, follow some discussions, learn what to look for to identify a particular gun. All part of Luger University. I think we all know how it usually goes if classes are skipped and homework is left uncompleted... Thus fortified, you'll be able to jump at something nice when it comes along. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-22-2016, 01:13 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Don't take on a parts basket for your first Luger. Properly fitting and adjusting these is quite a specialized skill, and not for amateurs or the general gunsmith. You'd pay a good price for parts, and then be stuck with making it work. To be clear, what you describe is NOT a bargain, or a good way to get started. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-22-2016, 08:02 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	You won't find a single "best" book to start with, and they really don't have "issues" they are just different and cover different areas of collecting. The older books are interesting but have been superseded by newer books written with more information. If you can pin down which area you are interested in, we could recommend a book to start with. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-21-2016, 03:06 AM	#4
karasmer User Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info guys, I have been doing tons of research on these, just read a great thread on fake serial numbers recently posted, was thinking $700 was too steep, I told the gun store owner the last thing I want to find out after buying one is "what the hell did I buy this for" after learning more about them, also the grips on that one seemed like they were loose, rattled ?, how does one tell if the grips are original, I am a WWI history buff so I am looking for one from that era? Thanks

12-21-2016, 07:39 AM	#5
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	If you are looking for a WWI era keep studying, and saving. A matching common variation one can be had in nice shape for a few hundred more if you are patient, and keep your eye open. If you want a shooter, George has a nice Vopo (E. German rework ) in the classifieds now priced in your range. John P.S. Vopo is now sold, I just checked it.

12-21-2016, 08:11 AM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The grips USUALLY have the last 2 numbers of the serial number stamped inside of the grips, but you have to sometimes have to look very hard to see them. Grips can usually be tightened by placing a tiny fiber or rubber washer on the grip screw prior to insertion. But if that gun is missing the side plate, it matters not if the grips match the original gun, it's a shooter. Many of us prefer the WW2 guns for shooters for metal strength reasons. If you pay $700 for this one, spend $100 plus on the sideplate, you'll already be behind the 8-ball. But then the search never ends. dju

12-21-2016, 10:50 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	"...if that gun is missing the side plate, it matters not if the grips match the original gun, it's a shooter." Not even a shooter, because it cannot be shot. A mismatched pistol without a sideplate is worth less than $400, to be broken up for parts. --Dwight

12-21-2016, 05:11 PM	#8
karasmer User Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still not worth it , put $125 into a side plate for a total of $825 for a shooter?

12-22-2016, 10:18 AM	#9
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	As Ithacaartist said, it depends and without pictures it is sort of a guess what this pistol is worth. Reproduction side plates can be had for around $50 and IMO are appropriate for a shooter. A 1913 Luger in above-average condition, non-matching numbers that actually shoots or can be brought into firing condition by adding a side plate, IMO is probably worth $750. The key questions are does it actually shoot, and is it actually in above-average condition. In general I don't think new Luger owners are well served by purchasing pistols that require work in order to fire. So unless you have some local resource to help you acquire a side plate and fit it to the pistol (my experience is they sometimes require fitting to function properly) you might consider passing on this one. Re: your other question, IMO online auctions tend to offer the best prices, but also present significant risk esp. to a newbie. If you go the online auction route, use patience, insist on good pictures and a three day inspection, pay via credit card (you may be able to get help from the CC company if the piece is not as described), only bid when the seller has significant transaction quantity and a rating of at least 99%, and don't pay more than $1,100 or so to minimize the chance of an expensive mistake. Here's an example that meets most of the criteria. I likely won't bid on this because the finish is a bit rough for my tastes but IMO this would be a good shooter: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/605668727 I have no affiliation with the seller, just passing along a pistol I evaluated and decided to pass on.

12-22-2016, 03:54 PM	#11
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	Yeah, as a new collector, my advice is to collect some good Luger reference books, first !

12-22-2016, 07:21 PM	#12
karasmer User Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well thanks for all the good advice guys, didn't know a side plate would take some work to actually function on the gun, as for books, still holding out, having trouble finding the best one to start with, seems to be issues with all of them. I think I'll skip that deal unless I can get it for $500 or under, they seemed pretty firm though at $700 (plus tax), that's one advantage to online purchase is no tax but that's about it, getting additional photos and such is like pulling teeth for some, and worse yet some want offers so it's like I'm wasting my time valuing their gun for them.

12-22-2016, 11:06 PM	#14
karasmer User Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mainly interested in WWI era for starters, would like to know of stamping identifications, what to look for, history,...

12-22-2016, 11:10 PM	#15
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I would recommend Jan Still's volume: Imperial Lugers. You won't find more or better info on WWI lugers, IMO. And about $150 +/- , will save you more than that on your first purchase. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-23-2016, 12:09 AM	#16
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	For a bit more, you can get the most thorough study ever done. Geoff Sturgess' book "The Borshardt and Luger Automatic Pistol" Get the red covered version from Simpson Ltd in Galesburg, Illinois. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-24-2016, 03:02 PM	#18
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 396 Thanks: 100 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Welcome Todd, If all you want is a mismatched shooter Luger, you should: 1. Put an ad on the WTB page of this forum. 2. Try to buy from someone on this forum - keep an eye on the WTS page. 3. You can also contact Tom Heller to try to find one. He often has shooters to sell at reasonable prices, and if you buy one from him, you can be sure it works. (636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net) - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

12-24-2016, 03:08 PM	#19
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 396 Thanks: 100 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	I don't know where you would find Still's Imperial Lugers for $150 - more like $250 and up (I paid $275 for mine as new). But it's definitely a great reference book - highly recommend. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers