query with 1917 Erfurt

MrSmith · 08-28-2011, 07:53 PM

Hello

new here

I just bought myself an all matching numbers 1917 Erfurt Luger (matching except for the magazines)

I just had a quick query,
One of the magazines is the correct brown wooden base type, silver finish. However the other magazine is a black plastic base type, this magazine is blued rather than the silver finish on a WW1 period piece.

Is this clip for a WW2 Luger or an outright reproduction/copy ?

thanks

alanint · 08-28-2011, 07:57 PM

Impossible to tell without more description or photos.
Does it have any markings on the magazine body?
Is the spring helical or a coil?
Is the follower plastic?
Does it have one pin holding the bottom in or two?

Answereing the above will help some in IDing the mag.

MrSmith · 08-28-2011, 08:34 PM

Hello Doug thanks for your reply

Of course, some photos, I'm not really an expert on any of this, the mag does not have any markings or numbers on it that I can see,

MrSmith · 08-28-2011, 08:36 PM

...

Norme · 08-28-2011, 09:02 PM

Hi John, You're right, the blued magazine with the black plastic base is a post-war commercial replacement. Your gun has British proof marks, so it must have passed through England on it's way to the U.S. Regards, Norm

MrSmith · 08-28-2011, 09:26 PM

Hi Norm

Thanks for your help, re the BMP mark

What does that signify? Is it a customs stamp that some Tommy brought it home and had that applied to enter Britain? Or was it then re-issued in some capacity in Britain?

Thanks for your help

Norme · 08-28-2011, 10:15 PM

Hi John, The Crown/B.N.P. (British Nitro Proof) mark is usually accompanied by the other marks you see in the photos. Under British law, guns that were merely warehoused in England had to satisfy British proof requirements. That is likely what happened to your gun. Regards, Norm

alanint · 08-29-2011, 09:10 AM

Nice, representative Erfurt. Your mag, as Norm mentioned, is a post war reproduction. Both Sarco and Gun Parts Corporation sell these. I believe they are manufactured by "Triple K"

hyrax222 · 08-29-2011, 08:05 PM

Isn't this a rebarreled Artillery model? Notch on top of barrel extention?

DavidJayUden · 08-29-2011, 08:41 PM

I believe that all the Erfurts had that cut-out.
dju

MrSmith · 09-01-2011, 07:44 AM

I did look through some other threads here and have seen a few other Erfurt's with the same barrel length as mine with the cut out in front of the date.

If I can just ask one more question on this please, would it not be unreasonable that this holster dated 1916 is the original for this gun?

I would have thought that by the time the holster was made and mated to a gun that the cross over in dates could occur.

thanks.

alanint · 09-01-2011, 09:17 AM

It certainly could have been the holster originaly issued with the gun. There were no hard rules for issue. Holsters in stock were mated with guns in stock and issued. There was no attempt to match dates on gun and holster, although that occurred by chance.

MFC · 09-01-2011, 11:48 PM

All Erfurts do not have the artillery rear sight notch on the receiver. Most 1916's through 1918's do. All army 4" barreled Erfurts dated 1910 through 1914 don't have the notch. Another member just posted a very nice 1912 Erfurt without the notch...http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=26788

MrSmith · 09-02-2011, 02:22 AM

Thanks guys for your help !

Lugerdoc · 09-02-2011, 11:39 AM

Many Erfurts built after 1915 will have the "notched" receiver, as they were just using up left over LPO8 received from their run of these in 1914. TH

08-28-2011, 07:53 PM	#1
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	query with 1917 Erfurt Hello new here I just bought myself an all matching numbers 1917 Erfurt Luger (matching except for the magazines) I just had a quick query, One of the magazines is the correct brown wooden base type, silver finish. However the other magazine is a black plastic base type, this magazine is blued rather than the silver finish on a WW1 period piece. Is this clip for a WW2 Luger or an outright reproduction/copy ? thanks

08-28-2011, 08:34 PM	#3
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hello Doug thanks for your reply Of course, some photos, I'm not really an expert on any of this, the mag does not have any markings or numbers on it that I can see, Attached Thumbnails

08-28-2011, 08:36 PM	#4
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	... Attached Thumbnails

08-28-2011, 10:15 PM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi John, The Crown/B.N.P. (British Nitro Proof) mark is usually accompanied by the other marks you see in the photos. Under British law, guns that were merely warehoused in England had to satisfy British proof requirements. That is likely what happened to your gun. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

09-01-2011, 09:17 AM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It certainly could have been the holster originaly issued with the gun. There were no hard rules for issue. Holsters in stock were mated with guns in stock and issued. There was no attempt to match dates on gun and holster, although that occurred by chance. Last edited by alanint; 09-02-2011 at 03:47 AM.

08-28-2011, 07:57 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Impossible to tell without more description or photos. Does it have any markings on the magazine body? Is the spring helical or a coil? Is the follower plastic? Does it have one pin holding the bottom in or two? Answereing the above will help some in IDing the mag.

08-28-2011, 09:02 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi John, You're right, the blued magazine with the black plastic base is a post-war commercial replacement. Your gun has British proof marks, so it must have passed through England on it's way to the U.S. Regards, Norm

08-28-2011, 09:26 PM	#6
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Norm Thanks for your help, re the BMP mark What does that signify? Is it a customs stamp that some Tommy brought it home and had that applied to enter Britain? Or was it then re-issued in some capacity in Britain? Thanks for your help

08-29-2011, 09:10 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Nice, representative Erfurt. Your mag, as Norm mentioned, is a post war reproduction. Both Sarco and Gun Parts Corporation sell these. I believe they are manufactured by "Triple K"

08-29-2011, 08:05 PM	#9
hyrax222 User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Oregon City Posts: 62 Thanks: 90 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Isn't this a rebarreled Artillery model? Notch on top of barrel extention?

08-29-2011, 08:41 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I believe that all the Erfurts had that cut-out. dju

09-01-2011, 07:44 AM	#11
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I did look through some other threads here and have seen a few other Erfurt's with the same barrel length as mine with the cut out in front of the date. If I can just ask one more question on this please, would it not be unreasonable that this holster dated 1916 is the original for this gun? I would have thought that by the time the holster was made and mated to a gun that the cross over in dates could occur. thanks.

09-01-2011, 11:48 PM	#13
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	All Erfurts do not have the artillery rear sight notch on the receiver. Most 1916's through 1918's do. All army 4" barreled Erfurts dated 1910 through 1914 don't have the notch. Another member just posted a very nice 1912 Erfurt without the notch...http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=26788 __________________ Mike C.

09-02-2011, 02:22 AM	#14
MrSmith User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks guys for your help !

09-02-2011, 11:39 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Many Erfurts built after 1915 will have the "notched" receiver, as they were just using up left over LPO8 received from their run of these in 1914. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net