Stainless Steel Lugers

klw · 10-11-2009, 12:07 AM

Mitchel Arms, I think, made a stainless steel luger years ago. Sometimes you see a company selling these new on GunsAmerica. Is this firm still in business?

policeluger · 10-11-2009, 12:53 AM

Mitchell arms are no longer in business, parts are impossible to get, a broken gun will be un-repairable......avoid Mitchell Lugers......welcome.

jamese · 10-11-2009, 10:05 AM

The steel is too soft, anyone who has worked on these can tell you that.

They make nice paper weights or just sitting in the safe looking purdy

Jim

sheepherder · 10-11-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by policeluger

Mitchell arms are no longer in business, parts are impossible to get, a broken gun will be un-repairable......avoid Mitchell Lugers......welcome.

(I know that discussion in For Sale Forum is not IAW CoC...but since two posts above were allowed...)

Isn't that a bit extreme??? If SS Mitchell was made from Luger specs, shouldn't a "real" Luger part be adaptable???

policeluger · 10-11-2009, 10:21 AM

I run a full time gun smith business, I have two forum Mitchell Lugers here in need of parts for repair and Mitchell will not send the parts for months now, despite saying they would, "real" Luger parts are not interchangable and one customer already got burned trying that route.....you have been warned, is that "extreme".....you want your investment sitting here with the other 2 ?

jamese · 10-11-2009, 10:29 AM

Luger parts are not interchangeable with the Mitchell Lugers........I will attest to that.

Its not extreme....just educating the consumer on the facts and they can make their own choices.
(Hmm...thought thats what this forum is about or at least it has for the past 6 years or so)

Jim

alvin · 10-11-2009, 10:40 AM

Simpson has one listed. Amazingly Mitchell's list price is higher than nice DWM 1920 Commercial. Upside down world? I knew some guys loving white guns. Getting Mitchell saves refinishing effort and cost.

klw · 10-11-2009, 11:00 AM

Wasn't the gun who owned Mitchell also the last owner of High Standard?

sheepherder · 10-11-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by policeluger

I run a full time gun smith business, I have two forum Mitchell Lugers here in need of parts for repair and Mitchell will not send the parts for months now, despite saying they would, "real" Luger parts are not interchangable and one customer already got burned trying that route.....you have been warned, is that "extreme".....you want your investment sitting here with the other 2 ?

Whoa there, big fella!!!

My comment was based on my experience with gunsmiths; people who can machine pretty much anything out of a chunk of 4140 steel and heat treat/temper it in their forge and come up with a part you couldn't tell from original...

Sadly, that was years ago...The only shops left hereabouts that will even work on your weapon now are parts changers, not smiths...

I suppose that is partly due to product liability...and time involved not being cost-effective...

So you're saying that Luger parts won't fit??? That's good to know...(I thought I had read (when they first came out) that they were made from original prints/specs)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamese

Luger parts are not interchangeable with the Mitchell Lugers........I will attest to that.

Its not extreme....just educating the consumer on the facts and they can make their own choices.
(Hmm...thought thats what this forum is about or at least it has for the past 6 years or so)

Jim

Jim -

I post on about a dozen Forums; some have a rule about "no chatting" in the Classifieds...I thought this was one of them...

Edward Tinker · 10-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

...

Jim -

I post on about a dozen Forums; some have a rule about "no chatting" in the Classifieds...I thought this was one of them...

It is a rule and this thread is in the wrong place.

I have moved it to a new area....

alvin · 10-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Heard two stories regarding parts interexchangability. The first one was printed on a Gun Digest book, the writer said "yes", and showed a few pictures with an old gun with Mitchell side plates, trigger etc. The second ... I forgot the source, said "no", because Mitchell used English size toolset in manufacturing and German ones used Metrics.

===

Edit: Also, the book article writer insisted that Mitchell was more accurate in range. But, he also admitted that he had never shot a collector German Parabellum. I would think comparing a brand new Mitchell with a mismatched old Luger in fair condition was a little bit unfair and misleading.

saab-bob · 10-11-2009, 02:19 PM

Let me toss my 2 cents in
I have owned and shot a stainless steel Mitchell for many years. I have had one part fall off,it was the sear spring.Could never find it, so I ordered a replacement spring from Numrich. It didn't fit very well,so I had to grind it slightly to fit.

Interesting, I have never tried to interchange parts on it from a German luger. Maybe I should try it in the interest of science. I do know the German mags will not work in it,but the Mitchell mags work in German guns???

My experience with shooting it? It is a finicky gun. Mine likes 124 grain Magtech ammo and the gun must be well lubricated with stainless grease.It is also sensitive to mags.I have a few of the original Mitchell mags and only a couple of them will feed reliably. I have also noticed that you need to be very careful in how you load the mags.Any even very slightly crooked ammo and you get jams. The original Mitchell loading tool is a joke,but it looks nice!

All that being said,when the cosmos is aligned correctly, the gun is really fun to shoot. It is very accurate and is a real crowd pleaser at the range.I never have to worry about the finish and I can clean it whenever I get around to it

I did read somewhere that the early ones where made of soft metal and the frame rails would bend and then jam the recoil movement.I read that and quickly miked mine,no issues.

Just thought I would share my experience,in the hope of helping others.

Now if could just find one the original Mitchell holsters!

klw · 10-11-2009, 04:45 PM

Decades ago I bought one. All that I remember is that it was a wonderful machine pistol. As long as the trigger was depressed the gun fired in full automatic. Returned it for repair but I don't remember what happened after that. In retrospect I wish that I had kept it as it was. Probably highly illegal but it was a lot of fun!

sheepherder · 10-11-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klw

All that I remember is that it was a wonderful machine pistol. As long as the trigger was depressed the gun fired in full automatic...

I had a brand-new High Standard Supermatic w/6 3/4" bbl back in the 70's; did the same thing...I was at a sandpit, shooting at cans, loaded up the mag, squeezed the trigger and it made a lazy baaang...and when I squeezed the trigger again, nothing happened...the mag was empty...

Not really much fun...unless you count watching the shells arc across the sky, all in a nice lazy crescent...

Traded it in for a S&W Mod 41 to a smith in Curriers NY...Don't recall if he ever figured it out or not...

Drachenstein · 10-11-2009, 07:30 PM

I read somewhere that any luger made other than DWM is a cheap copy.

I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. Mine prefers 115gr Winchesters and will jam with 124gr Magtechs. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced, accurate, but a little heavy. They seem to be a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands.
AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. It’s a bit like the 1903 Springfield stigma, which is based on truth, but all 1903’s are considered safe after the problem was corrected. You'll still hear some oldtimer telling you the 03 reciever will blow up in your face.

You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive and getting through to them a pain in the butt. The magazines and parts are not interchangeable with other lugers.

As far as their cost, you just don’t see many and that drives the price up. I take mine to the range and it turns heads. It is beautiful. If I had an offer to trade it for a navy DWM ?

It would be gone in a heart beat. Shooting wise I do prefer my S/42 over it,,,,,,,, just feels better. The only preference I have to stainless is my black powder deer rifle,

makes cleaning soooo much easier.

wdavid431 · 10-12-2009, 08:56 AM

Does any one know when Mitchell corrected the soft metal problem. I ask, because I have a 1992 Mitchell and right now it is a great shooter.
It seems with Mitchell Lugers it is either a good one or a bad one. Mine has always been good and I am sad for the people who got bad ones.

saab-bob · 10-12-2009, 08:07 PM

In a home version of "Mythbusters" I tried to interchange German made luger parts with parts from my stainless Mitchell.

As you learned gents have reported,the German parts will not fit on a Mitchell Luger!:

The fit is really close,but no cigar.

Can you let me know what parts seem to fail on this gun?

Maybe if I order the parts now,I will get them in time if something breaks?

tomaustin · 10-12-2009, 09:40 PM

they sound like a nice addition, but experience would make the purchase more logical...thanks, tom

Alx · 10-15-2009, 07:13 PM

I had three STOEGER stainless Aimco Lugers, and all three of them had problems. The metal was not hardened properly, you could see the toggle battering on the frame rails which were indented at the impact point and mushed out on the sides. The parts were similar but not to the exact fit, nowhere as close as even Erfurt parts are to DWM. None of the three guns would shoot two rounds in succession without stovepipe jams etc. Their magazines are completely different from Luger magazines.

Besides that, I was put off by the wavy buffing and melted edges everywhere. Even a beater German P08 beats a Texas stainless copy.
If you have to have a white metal Luger, take an old mismatched and badly refinished German Luger, and strip it (with chemicals). Just keep it oily.

10-11-2009, 12:07 AM	#1
klw New User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stainless Steel Lugers Mitchel Arms, I think, made a stainless steel luger years ago. Sometimes you see a company selling these new on GunsAmerica. Is this firm still in business?

10-11-2009, 10:05 AM	#3
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	The steel is too soft, anyone who has worked on these can tell you that. They make nice paper weights or just sitting in the safe looking purdy Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

10-11-2009, 10:29 AM	#6
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Luger parts are not interchangeable with the Mitchell Lugers........I will attest to that. Its not extreme....just educating the consumer on the facts and they can make their own choices. (Hmm...thought thats what this forum is about or at least it has for the past 6 years or so) Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

10-11-2009, 02:19 PM	#12
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Let me toss my 2 cents in I have owned and shot a stainless steel Mitchell for many years. I have had one part fall off,it was the sear spring.Could never find it, so I ordered a replacement spring from Numrich. It didn't fit very well,so I had to grind it slightly to fit. Interesting, I have never tried to interchange parts on it from a German luger. Maybe I should try it in the interest of science. I do know the German mags will not work in it,but the Mitchell mags work in German guns??? My experience with shooting it? It is a finicky gun. Mine likes 124 grain Magtech ammo and the gun must be well lubricated with stainless grease.It is also sensitive to mags.I have a few of the original Mitchell mags and only a couple of them will feed reliably. I have also noticed that you need to be very careful in how you load the mags.Any even very slightly crooked ammo and you get jams. The original Mitchell loading tool is a joke,but it looks nice! All that being said,when the cosmos is aligned correctly, the gun is really fun to shoot. It is very accurate and is a real crowd pleaser at the range.I never have to worry about the finish and I can clean it whenever I get around to it I did read somewhere that the early ones where made of soft metal and the frame rails would bend and then jam the recoil movement.I read that and quickly miked mine,no issues. Just thought I would share my experience,in the hope of helping others. Now if could just find one the original Mitchell holsters! __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-12-2009, 08:56 AM	#16
wdavid431 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Does any one know when Mitchell corrected the soft metal problem. I ask, because I have a 1992 Mitchell and right now it is a great shooter. It seems with Mitchell Lugers it is either a good one or a bad one. Mine has always been good and I am sad for the people who got bad ones. __________________ W David

10-11-2009, 12:53 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Mitchell arms are no longer in business, parts are impossible to get, a broken gun will be un-repairable......avoid Mitchell Lugers......welcome.

10-11-2009, 10:21 AM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I run a full time gun smith business, I have two forum Mitchell Lugers here in need of parts for repair and Mitchell will not send the parts for months now, despite saying they would, "real" Luger parts are not interchangable and one customer already got burned trying that route.....you have been warned, is that "extreme".....you want your investment sitting here with the other 2 ?

10-11-2009, 10:40 AM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Simpson has one listed. Amazingly Mitchell's list price is higher than nice DWM 1920 Commercial. Upside down world? I knew some guys loving white guns. Getting Mitchell saves refinishing effort and cost.

10-11-2009, 11:00 AM	#8
klw New User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wasn't the gun who owned Mitchell also the last owner of High Standard?

10-11-2009, 11:48 AM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Heard two stories regarding parts interexchangability. The first one was printed on a Gun Digest book, the writer said "yes", and showed a few pictures with an old gun with Mitchell side plates, trigger etc. The second ... I forgot the source, said "no", because Mitchell used English size toolset in manufacturing and German ones used Metrics. === Edit: Also, the book article writer insisted that Mitchell was more accurate in range. But, he also admitted that he had never shot a collector German Parabellum. I would think comparing a brand new Mitchell with a mismatched old Luger in fair condition was a little bit unfair and misleading.

10-11-2009, 04:45 PM	#13
klw New User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Decades ago I bought one. All that I remember is that it was a wonderful machine pistol. As long as the trigger was depressed the gun fired in full automatic. Returned it for repair but I don't remember what happened after that. In retrospect I wish that I had kept it as it was. Probably highly illegal but it was a lot of fun!

10-11-2009, 07:30 PM	#15
Drachenstein User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I read somewhere that any luger made other than DWM is a cheap copy. I have a late Stoeger Navy (6 in) that works just fine. Mine prefers 115gr Winchesters and will jam with 124gr Magtechs. I have no problem with disassembly or assembly. Very balanced, accurate, but a little heavy. They seem to be a bit thicker and not quite so ergonomic as a classic Luger, but I do have small hands. AIMCO actually made both the Stoeger and the Mitchell. There was a problem with the early Mitchell models with the metallurgy. They were too soft and would eventually beat themselves to death. The problem was supposed to have been corrected while still under the Mitchell name. It’s a bit like the 1903 Springfield stigma, which is based on truth, but all 1903’s are considered safe after the problem was corrected. You'll still hear some oldtimer telling you the 03 reciever will blow up in your face. You can still get replacement parts through Aimco but they are expensive and getting through to them a pain in the butt. The magazines and parts are not interchangeable with other lugers. As far as their cost, you just don’t see many and that drives the price up. I take mine to the range and it turns heads. It is beautiful. If I had an offer to trade it for a navy DWM ? It would be gone in a heart beat. Shooting wise I do prefer my S/42 over it,,,,,,,, just feels better. The only preference I have to stainless is my black powder deer rifle, makes cleaning soooo much easier.

10-12-2009, 08:07 PM	#17
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	In a home version of "Mythbusters" I tried to interchange German made luger parts with parts from my stainless Mitchell. As you learned gents have reported,the German parts will not fit on a Mitchell Luger!: The fit is really close,but no cigar. Can you let me know what parts seem to fail on this gun? Maybe if I order the parts now,I will get them in time if something breaks? __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-12-2009, 09:40 PM	#18
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	please post up a spec on the good ones to buy... they sound like a nice addition, but experience would make the purchase more logical...thanks, tom

10-15-2009, 07:13 PM	#19
Alx User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nashville, Tennessee area Posts: 263 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I had three STOEGER stainless Aimco Lugers, and all three of them had problems. The metal was not hardened properly, you could see the toggle battering on the frame rails which were indented at the impact point and mushed out on the sides. The parts were similar but not to the exact fit, nowhere as close as even Erfurt parts are to DWM. None of the three guns would shoot two rounds in succession without stovepipe jams etc. Their magazines are completely different from Luger magazines. Besides that, I was put off by the wavy buffing and melted edges everywhere. Even a beater German P08 beats a Texas stainless copy. If you have to have a white metal Luger, take an old mismatched and badly refinished German Luger, and strip it (with chemicals). Just keep it oily.