1918 stock

dittamedia · 11-03-2004, 11:56 AM

My 1918 Erfurt has the mount on the grip for a shoulder stock. How often were stocks used with these Lugers? Anybody have a picture of one of those stocks?

John Sabato · 11-03-2004, 12:51 PM

Shoulder stocks were not issued with standard handguns, only the Artillery Models... The use of any stock on a Luger handgun that is not on the ATF Curio & Relic List of exempted NFA stocked pistols would be a federal felony...under the National Firearms Act of 1934, UNLESS you register the gun/stock combination as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) with the ATF, and pay the $200.00 tax.

Here is a photo of a stock (without holster and accessories) typical of the artillery type:

Here is a small photo of this type of stock attached to an Artillery Luger with a TM-08 (trommelmagazine) snail drum 32 round magazine that we use on the front page of this website.

Frank · 11-03-2004, 02:43 PM

Hi John, I'm sure it was just an oversight, but stocks were also issued with Navy Lugers, as well as Artillery Models.

Edward Tinker · 11-03-2004, 03:16 PM

And not issued but used, they used stocks on police guns at the armory, but proving that is impossible, so you can't use a stock legally on them unless registered.

ed

Russ · 11-03-2004, 08:36 PM

Ya fergot carbines too.

Russ

Pete Ebbink · 11-03-2004, 11:05 PM

The Finnish luger holster rigs also came with a shoulder stock...wonder if the BATF recognize these as "proper"...?

Regards,

Pete. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

dittamedia · 11-04-2004, 09:24 AM

Were the stocks used on he 4" barrelled Lugers? I assume so since there is the mount for it, but I can't find any images of that.

John Sabato · 11-04-2004, 09:51 AM

Thanks to all for all the clarifications...

Frank, thanks for filling in the blanks on Navy's, and Russ, thanks for mentioning the Carbines.

I was responding based on the description and image of the stock in the photos... being an artillery stock, and not responding to stocks in general but I guess I wasn't clear on that.

I just didn't have time for a real long answer... my primary issue was that dittamedia know that it would be illegal for him to use his stock with his two Luger handguns that were NOT artillery models... without meeting the registration and tax conditions of the NFA of 1934.

Pete, you are correct about the Finnish Lugers being issued with Artillery model stocks, but (without checking recently) I am pretty sure that they have NOT been added to the NFA Curio & Relic exemption list and are therefore not legal to be used with a stock yet...

dittamedia, All military Lugers after about 1913 (not sure of the exact date with research) were produced with the stock lug on the grip frame as a standard manufacturing step. As stated above, the stocks can be attached, but NOT legally, to a 4" barrel Luger without meeting the requirements of the NFA of 1934. To do so is a federal felony... If you don't intend to own an Artillery Luger in the immediate future, I would "give" it as a present to some relative that doesn't own a Luger to keep... someone who will make a present of it to you if you ever buy an Artillery Luger...

Mere possession of the stock, and 4 inch Lugers, without owning an Artillery Luger, might be considered evidence of "constructive intent" to violate the NFA of 1934 by creating a short barreled rifle by an overzealous ATF agent... and get you into serious trouble.

Your stock looks original to me in the photo, but I can't be certain without better photos, and you will likely not replace that stock for anywhere near what you paid for it... Keep it as an investment. I haven't seen an authentic stock sell for less than $450 in a couple of years and the value will only increase.

11-03-2004, 11:56 AM	#1
dittamedia User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 stock My 1918 Erfurt has the mount on the grip for a shoulder stock. How often were stocks used with these Lugers? Anybody have a picture of one of those stocks?

11-03-2004, 12:51 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Shoulder stocks were not issued with standard handguns, only the Artillery Models... The use of any stock on a Luger handgun that is not on the ATF Curio & Relic List of exempted NFA stocked pistols would be a federal felony...under the National Firearms Act of 1934, UNLESS you register the gun/stock combination as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) with the ATF, and pay the $200.00 tax. Here is a photo of a stock (without holster and accessories) typical of the artillery type: Here is a small photo of this type of stock attached to an Artillery Luger with a TM-08 (trommelmagazine) snail drum 32 round magazine that we use on the front page of this website. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-03-2004, 03:16 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	And not issued but used, they used stocks on police guns at the armory, but proving that is impossible, so you can't use a stock legally on them unless registered. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-03-2004, 08:36 PM	#5
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Ya fergot carbines too. Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

11-04-2004, 09:51 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thanks to all for all the clarifications... Frank, thanks for filling in the blanks on Navy's, and Russ, thanks for mentioning the Carbines. I was responding based on the description and image of the stock in the photos... being an artillery stock, and not responding to stocks in general but I guess I wasn't clear on that. I just didn't have time for a real long answer... my primary issue was that dittamedia know that it would be illegal for him to use his stock with his two Luger handguns that were NOT artillery models... without meeting the registration and tax conditions of the NFA of 1934. Pete, you are correct about the Finnish Lugers being issued with Artillery model stocks, but (without checking recently) I am pretty sure that they have NOT been added to the NFA Curio & Relic exemption list and are therefore not legal to be used with a stock yet... dittamedia, All military Lugers after about 1913 (not sure of the exact date with research) were produced with the stock lug on the grip frame as a standard manufacturing step. As stated above, the stocks can be attached, but NOT legally, to a 4" barrel Luger without meeting the requirements of the NFA of 1934. To do so is a federal felony... If you don't intend to own an Artillery Luger in the immediate future, I would "give" it as a present to some relative that doesn't own a Luger to keep... someone who will make a present of it to you if you ever buy an Artillery Luger... Mere possession of the stock, and 4 inch Lugers, without owning an Artillery Luger, might be considered evidence of "constructive intent" to violate the NFA of 1934 by creating a short barreled rifle by an overzealous ATF agent... and get you into serious trouble. Your stock looks original to me in the photo, but I can't be certain without better photos, and you will likely not replace that stock for anywhere near what you paid for it... Keep it as an investment. I haven't seen an authentic stock sell for less than $450 in a couple of years and the value will only increase. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-03-2004, 02:43 PM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi John, I'm sure it was just an oversight, but stocks were also issued with Navy Lugers, as well as Artillery Models.

11-03-2004, 11:05 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	The Finnish luger holster rigs also came with a shoulder stock...wonder if the BATF recognize these as "proper"...? Regards, Pete. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

11-04-2004, 09:24 AM	#7
dittamedia User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern California Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Were the stocks used on he 4" barrelled Lugers? I assume so since there is the mount for it, but I can't find any images of that.