Ultimate Artillery collectable

Doug G. · 08-03-2006, 06:27 PM

I have never seen one of these for sale. A bit more than I would pay, but if you "have" to have it. Should only cost another $5-$7k to fill it up!

Trommel mag box

Big Norm · 08-08-2006, 02:36 AM

Doug,
You have to have one box for the type 1 Trommel and another for the type 2 Trommel magazine.

Big Norm

Doug G. · 08-08-2006, 09:21 AM

I guess I can do that if I put my 911 in hock!

What is the opinion of the real value of this piece? I will throw out a WAG of about $3-$3.5k.

LU1900 · 08-08-2006, 11:38 AM

........

Doug G. · 08-08-2006, 11:49 AM

Ok, I have an idea. Everyone send me their Trommel mags and I'll buy the box to put them in!

Navy · 08-09-2006, 09:06 AM

Doug,

They typically go for about $5K; at least that is what the last 3 I know about sold at.

Tom A

Big Norm · 08-11-2006, 06:36 AM

I always wondered why they only put one loading tool in the box with five Trommel magazines.

Big Norm

LU1900 · 08-11-2006, 01:15 PM

............

Big Norm · 08-11-2006, 01:26 PM

Pat,
a soldier would need to reload during or after the heat of battle. The Trommel was not disposed of after one full 32 round usage. It would be possible to load fewer bullets by hand which would be still more desirable, under certain circumstances, than a bolt action rifle.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 08-11-2006, 01:54 PM

I would tend to go along with Pat, a soldier would not attempt to reload a Trommel during a battle. In fact, unless there was a significant lull in the action, I doubt that any magazine, Trommel or regular, was reloaded while bullets were flying. You just swapped magazines and kept on going (but not disposing of the empty mag), until it got down to hand-to-hand. Also, I believe that a soldier, particularly Stosstruppen, would carry more than one TM.

Considering the time and effort required to load a Trommel, I think Pat is correct that the unit armorer loaded them, hence only one loading tool per P-Kasten.

Navy · 08-12-2006, 08:46 AM

Ron,
You are correct. I have seen period photos showing a stoss trupe wearing 2 carriers in front and what appeared to be a third on his side/rear.

Its about firepower when needed.

Tom A

Big Norm · 08-14-2006, 01:19 AM

Ron Wood and TomA might be absolutely correct. I would like to, maybe. interject another thought (guess) that maybe there were five men to a machine gun and that the sargent or officer in charge of that machine gun would have the loader and would either load all the Trommel magazines or pass it around in the machine gun nest during a lull in the fighting. Machine guns and Lugers were high tech in WW1 and many people would back off, for a while, when confronted with such fire power.
Big Norm

PAOLO · 08-14-2006, 12:14 PM

Hi
I asked a German collector what was the actual use of TM08s among the Stoss Truppen.He answered me that a friend of him told that his grandfather,a Stoss Truppen soldier on the Western front,used to carry(like his collegues) two TM08s in the belt(updown)and some(8/10) normal mags in the pouches of his uniform.They started using the TM08s,but if they jammed they thhrew them away,and used the standard mags.Anyway the empty TM08s never came back.They are still on the battlefield.

Paolo

mauro · 08-15-2006, 04:02 AM

Hello guys,
Only a suggestion for who is interested in an in-depth analysis about the Stosstruppen tactics.

A have read a nice book that describes the new tactics implemented by the Stosstruppen and, as consequence, the new use of weapons system.

The Stosstruppen implemented, for the first time, the attacks with limited objectives and the elastic defence (something not so far from the current techniques used by the current Infantry).

While German artillery suppressed the French guns with gas shell, detachment of Sturmtruppen charged over the top to open gaps in French wire. The Stosstruppen were followed by the line infantry, swarming forward in skirmish lines and occupied the French position.

The new tactics need different kind of weapons really focused to the target. For this purpose the Stosstruppen were used to use the following weapons:
P08, LP08 with TM08, K98 carbine, the machine gun MP18 with TM08 as well, the M1915 Stielhandgranade, the minewerfer and so on.

So, the book is the following:

German Stormtrooper 1914-1918, Ian Drury, Embleton, Gerry. Lee Johnson 1999.

Have fun,
Cheers,
Mauro

Big Norm · 08-16-2006, 01:51 AM

PAOLO,
I heard something very simular to what you said. The American soldiers who used the BAR carried a lot of loaded magazines for their weapons. But when the magazines were emptied, the soldiers just threw them away. I guess that foot soldiers just don't like to carry useless weight if they don't have to. But then when the soldiers went back to get more ammunition, they found that the ammunition crates were filled with loose ammunition and no magazines for the BAR. So that rifle was thus rendered useless.

So I can understand the Trommel magazine being discarded when they jammed. It only takes a small dent in them to cause jamming and then they are practically useless. Then all the mud that those guys had to fight in didn't help either.
Big Norm

petie3 · 10-22-2006, 11:59 PM

Wow,. I have a few (3) Lugers and have a lot to learn. Pricy wow.

08-03-2006, 06:27 PM	#1
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Ultimate Artillery collectable I have never seen one of these for sale. A bit more than I would pay, but if you "have" to have it. Should only cost another $5-$7k to fill it up! Trommel mag box __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

08-08-2006, 09:21 AM	#3
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	I guess I can do that if I put my 911 in hock! What is the opinion of the real value of this piece? I will throw out a WAG of about $3-$3.5k. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

08-08-2006, 11:38 AM	#4
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 905 Thanks: 37 Thanked 466 Times in 195 Posts	........ __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-08-2006, 11:49 AM	#5
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Ok, I have an idea. Everyone send me their Trommel mags and I'll buy the box to put them in! __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

08-11-2006, 01:15 PM	#8
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 905 Thanks: 37 Thanked 466 Times in 195 Posts	............ __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-08-2006, 02:36 AM	#2
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Doug, You have to have one box for the type 1 Trommel and another for the type 2 Trommel magazine. Big Norm

08-09-2006, 09:06 AM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Doug, They typically go for about $5K; at least that is what the last 3 I know about sold at. Tom A

08-11-2006, 06:36 AM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I always wondered why they only put one loading tool in the box with five Trommel magazines. Big Norm

08-11-2006, 01:26 PM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pat, a soldier would need to reload during or after the heat of battle. The Trommel was not disposed of after one full 32 round usage. It would be possible to load fewer bullets by hand which would be still more desirable, under certain circumstances, than a bolt action rifle. Big Norm

08-11-2006, 01:54 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I would tend to go along with Pat, a soldier would not attempt to reload a Trommel during a battle. In fact, unless there was a significant lull in the action, I doubt that any magazine, Trommel or regular, was reloaded while bullets were flying. You just swapped magazines and kept on going (but not disposing of the empty mag), until it got down to hand-to-hand. Also, I believe that a soldier, particularly Stosstruppen, would carry more than one TM. Considering the time and effort required to load a Trommel, I think Pat is correct that the unit armorer loaded them, hence only one loading tool per P-Kasten. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-12-2006, 08:46 AM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Ron, You are correct. I have seen period photos showing a stoss trupe wearing 2 carriers in front and what appeared to be a third on his side/rear. Its about firepower when needed. Tom A

08-14-2006, 01:19 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron Wood and TomA might be absolutely correct. I would like to, maybe. interject another thought (guess) that maybe there were five men to a machine gun and that the sargent or officer in charge of that machine gun would have the loader and would either load all the Trommel magazines or pass it around in the machine gun nest during a lull in the fighting. Machine guns and Lugers were high tech in WW1 and many people would back off, for a while, when confronted with such fire power. Big Norm

08-14-2006, 12:14 PM	#13
PAOLO User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Cremona, Italy Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi I asked a German collector what was the actual use of TM08s among the Stoss Truppen.He answered me that a friend of him told that his grandfather,a Stoss Truppen soldier on the Western front,used to carry(like his collegues) two TM08s in the belt(updown)and some(8/10) normal mags in the pouches of his uniform.They started using the TM08s,but if they jammed they thhrew them away,and used the standard mags.Anyway the empty TM08s never came back.They are still on the battlefield. Paolo __________________ PAOLO

08-15-2006, 04:02 AM	#14
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello guys, Only a suggestion for who is interested in an in-depth analysis about the Stosstruppen tactics. A have read a nice book that describes the new tactics implemented by the Stosstruppen and, as consequence, the new use of weapons system. The Stosstruppen implemented, for the first time, the attacks with limited objectives and the elastic defence (something not so far from the current techniques used by the current Infantry). While German artillery suppressed the French guns with gas shell, detachment of Sturmtruppen charged over the top to open gaps in French wire. The Stosstruppen were followed by the line infantry, swarming forward in skirmish lines and occupied the French position. The new tactics need different kind of weapons really focused to the target. For this purpose the Stosstruppen were used to use the following weapons: P08, LP08 with TM08, K98 carbine, the machine gun MP18 with TM08 as well, the M1915 Stielhandgranade, the minewerfer and so on. So, the book is the following: German Stormtrooper 1914-1918, Ian Drury, Embleton, Gerry. Lee Johnson 1999. Have fun, Cheers, Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

08-16-2006, 01:51 AM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	PAOLO, I heard something very simular to what you said. The American soldiers who used the BAR carried a lot of loaded magazines for their weapons. But when the magazines were emptied, the soldiers just threw them away. I guess that foot soldiers just don't like to carry useless weight if they don't have to. But then when the soldiers went back to get more ammunition, they found that the ammunition crates were filled with loose ammunition and no magazines for the BAR. So that rifle was thus rendered useless. So I can understand the Trommel magazine being discarded when they jammed. It only takes a small dent in them to cause jamming and then they are practically useless. Then all the mud that those guys had to fight in didn't help either. Big Norm

10-22-2006, 11:59 PM	#16
petie3 User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Redlands CA Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow,. I have a few (3) Lugers and have a lot to learn. Pricy wow.