~Clean fill dirt needed~

[Sieger]

Originally posted by apis mellifera
Personally, I think it's silly that the present "fact" taught in school is that from a one celled organism spontaneously sprang all the diversity we see on Earth. All the many species, birds, crabs, humans, all came from this ooze-borne cell? What are the statistics on that happening? I find it much more likely that God created this planted and later on, offered me salvation from death.

Bravo Apis:

To me the great mystery is just what formed that first single cell organism. After this question can be answered, then "facts" can be presented to back up theories.

When has science observed the creation of anything from nothingness? Does it occur daily? If not, why do they think it occurred long ago? This hypothesis is the "scientific faith" you wisely commented about above.

Parts of the THEORY of evolution make sense to me and can be proven by a simple study of nature. The upward evolution of animals by selective breading, for instance: Race horses, improved types of crops, etc., would seem to prove, in a limited sense, part of that theory.

Men from apes? I'm not convinced. One thing I will comment on. Prayer (religion) was taken out of the school house in 1960. By 1967, after having been taught the THEORY of evolution, most of my fellow students were beginning to act more like apes.

What really bugs me about some evolutionists is the fact that they are exclusionary in their teachings. They have driven creationism out of the school house as fantasy or "separation of church and state" yet present their THEORY as fact to be learned by the whole of the civil student population. Isn't this just what the "Monkey Trial" of the 1930s was all about, but just in reverse.

I agree, let everyone follow their own conscience, let both creationism and evolution be openly taught in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Let no one "force" their particular beliefs upon another. This is the American way!

Sieger

[davidkachel]

Bravo Sieger,
Gee, we've got some pretty smart guys here! Whooda thunk it!!?? <grin>

[Mauser720]

Here is another aspect of this big "hole" in space that is difficult to explain under the current theory of the big bang. It is true that everything in space now all throughout the universe is thought to have at one time been compressed into a small bit of matter about the size of the head of a pin. How it got so incredibly pressed into such a small ball has not been explained. But something caused it to suddenly explode outward. If you put too much air in a round balloon, what happens? Eventually the balloon blows up and all the air that is under pressure go spreading out from the balloon in all directions. Now in such a huge explosion as envisioned by the Big Bang Theory, there would have been this huge amount of matter spreading outward in every direction, and also in fairly uniform concentrations in every direction. The problem is this: If all the matter was speeding outward from a common center or point, then how come it somehow came back together to form galaxies, stars, planets, moons, other solar systems, etc. In other words, you can't have it both ways. You can't say it was all blowing up, but somehow it all came back together in the forms we see today throughout the universe. Or consider another example: If you took a big stick of dynamite, and detonated it in space, would individual parts of that stick of dynamite ever reconnect with each other? Well, the answer is "no." And that is the big problem, when we clearly see that matter has come together all over the Universe. Now astronomers have found this huge "hole" in space, and the big question is how could the Big Bang Theory ever explain the existence of this big hole when matter was supposed to have been uniformly cast outwards at nearly the speed of light in all directions? It is an unsettling dilemma because it doesn't fit in with the theory. We should not be seeing this.

Ron

[BogeyB]

Dave,

I like your idea; but that much dense material in one place will cause the universe to stop expanding and imploude upon itself, destroying us all!!

Mike

[pipeman45]

This is a touchy subject. But I have to add my 2 cents worth.
I think there is a GOD
I think he created everything in the universe through whatever means he wanted to, as in creationism,and evolution.
I also think when time is over and all thing are reveled. GOD will shake his head at all the major religions and say:
You all got it wrong!

[davidkachel]

BOGEYB,

The end of the universe is a small price to pay for getting rid of all those bureaucrats and politicians, wouldn't you say?

[davidkachel]

pipeman,

Here, here! As I said earlier, I think HE has a somewhat twisted sense of humor and is getting a big laugh out of all of us.

[Mauser720]

Mike mentioned that everything might stop expanding and instead implode inward upon itself. This is just the opposit of the "Big Bang" and it is called the "Big Crunch." (no kidding)

Ron

[davidkachel]

Or big constipation, maybe?

[Vlim]

I once had a discussion with a door-to-door believer. I simply told him argueing was senseless, since I could never prove him wrong and he could never prove me wrong

Some mysteries are just more fun remaining just that.

[BogeyB]

I'm sure if the universe ends in " The Big Crunch "; God will will welcome us in heaven, for we are fine gentlemen and Lugers are a thing of fine beauty!

Mike

[Sieger]

HA!!

That is the real question!!

WILL THERE BE OLD LUGERS AND MAUSERS IN HEAVEN?!?!?

Sieger

[davidkachel]

Sieger,
If there ain't, I ain't goin'. Period!

[Lugerdoc]

Man created gods to explain the unexplainable. I personally, like the "Thor Theory" that it all started with one of his thunder bolts. TH

[G.T.]

Aaaalllll the wwwaaaayyy to the edge of this huge void in space, there will be a sign saying, "Wall Drug, only 1000 more light years ahead!" Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[davidkachel]

I thought the sign says "Burma Shave"!?
(You gotta be a certain age to get that one.)

[Dante Di Pietro Jr.]

That big empty space is reserved for Hillarys ego! If lugers aint allowed in heaven I will be disapointed!

[davidkachel]

And don't forget S&Ws and Colts and Berettas (older ones) and... aw to hell with it, I ain't goin'!
Besides all the guns and most of my friends are probably in the other place, or headed there. Especially most of YOU guys! <grin>

[Ron Smith]

[He lit a match]...[to check gas tank]... [that's why they call him]... [Skinless Frank]... [BURMA SHAVE]

[Alx]

One correction here....
A BIG one ...

Any true scientist will tell you that Evolution is actually a THEORY.
And that Creationism is a THEORY.
The actual nature of electricity is a THEORY too.

Ok, now the important thing, is which theories are useful, explain the obseved phenomena, predict accurate results to testing them, and have resisted being DISPROVED.

A THEORY CAN NEVER BE PROVED, only disproved.

Evolution seems to satisfy most of the requirements for a successful theory.
It is useful to breeders of dogs and horses, crops and flowers. It predicts many genetic phenomena, and it has NEVER BEEN DISPROVED.
If you have ever watched the lions drag down the slowest dik-dik in the herd, you have seen some of the supporting evidence to Natural Selection, a cornerstone concept of Evolution.
Note that while some mistaken critics of evolution theory insist they are not decended from apes, they ENTIRELY miss the point that Evolution determines we are cousins to apes, not their descendants. Our common ancestors are long gone, according to proper Evolutionary theory.

Creationism seems to not be as defendable. Hard to limit the Earths orgin to only six-thousand years. Geologic evidence, carbon dating, Astronomy, most scientific beliefs, evidence, and common sense are against it. BUT it does satisfy some needs, and is useful to many believers.

So while Creationism is still a Theory, it has been scientifically disproved to the satisfaction of the vast majority of modern scientists. But if you like to believe the earth is flat, then six thousand years might seem enough time to account for it all.

GOD, on the other hand, has never been disproved, and by the very nature of supernatural Faith and Belief, has not been proved, and CANNOT BE DISPROVED.

Note that the acutal explanations proposed for electricity have never been proved -- ( is it a wave, or a particle, or a quanta, or ...... ? ) but the acceptance of it and its "laws" as a reality allows us the use of it.

That is where Evolution is now, a useful, reasonable, scientifically accepted THEORY, which can NEVER BE PROVED, but which has not been disproved.

This whole line of contention was explored in Dayton, Tennessee in 1925, Scopes vs. State, with very interesting (legal) results. Conviction: Conviction over-turned, and case retired, unable to be appealed. The law banning the teaching of evolution remained on the books for about 50 years more, the ACLU's attempt to challenge it in higher courts was side-stepped, and no further attempts were made to enforce the law. It was just allowed to remain there to placate the fundamentalists, while Evolution was/is still taught in science classes.

Unfortunately, the SCIENTIFIC METHOD is not adequately taught, and Evolution Theory is still taught as a proved fact, which is an ERROR. It is a Theory, subject to the limitations of all Theories.

If the theories of Creation and of Evolution were taught side-by-side, and in the perspective of the Scientific Method which explains the nature of all theories, and in the perspective of the Supernatural, which cannot be proved nor disproved, we could let students draw their own conclusions.