LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Early Lugers (1900-1906)

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 04-09-2020, 11:29 AM   #1
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Question Help identify: Luger 1906 Commercial 9mm

Hi guys!

I am new to this forum and also to owning old guns. Always was a fan of modern ones (except always wanted 1911 from 20-30s)

Few days ago I've bought my first Luger without prior "home work"... That was an impulse buy as I liked it (And bought it for less than what I see on GunBroker)

So after I examined it what I found:

Early 1906 Commercial BUG proofed 9mm (should be made 1906-1907?)

Serial numbers:
bottom of the barrel(full) - OK
front of the frame(full) - OK
breechblock (lower left side) - OK
extractor (bottom) - OK
front toggle link (bottom) - OK
rear toggle link (back) - OK
receiver(rear) - OK
side plate (bottom edge) - OK
takedown lever (bottom) - OK
trigger (top left) - OK
grip safety (under grip) - OK
magazine(NO serial) - OK


All proof marks seems on place.

So I ask for your help to check it and also opinion what to do next? :
1. It is fake/ it is dead - make a good shooter from it as it has no any value(change barrel)
2. Good enough sample, pretty scarce. Just clean it and keep it.
3. Between dead and collectible - restore it.
4. Your option

Also in your opinion how much it worth? I don't plan to sell it but rather want to understand if I paid too much

Thank you!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4077.jpg
Views:	437
Size:	149.8 KB
ID:	79404  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4089.jpg
Views:	413
Size:	144.3 KB
ID:	79407  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4091.jpg
Views:	373
Size:	72.0 KB
ID:	79409  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4092.jpg
Views:	385
Size:	109.3 KB
ID:	79410  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4094.jpg
Views:	378
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	79411  


Last edited by briskspirit; 09-21-2020 at 11:14 AM.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to briskspirit for your post:
Unread 04-09-2020, 11:30 AM   #2
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Few more photos:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4109.jpg
Views:	399
Size:	91.5 KB
ID:	79415  


Last edited by briskspirit; 09-21-2020 at 11:15 AM.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to briskspirit for your post:
Unread 04-09-2020, 01:10 PM   #3
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,903
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,320 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Sn 49491 is 10,000 numbers past the beginning of commercial P08 production, so likely dates from late-1909--early-1910. Definitely refinished, certainly adequate for shooting. Replacing the barrel on an all-matching Luger is a controversial act. Shoot it, you might find that it is more accurate than the barrel condition would lead you to believe.


--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 3 members says Thank You to Dwight Gruber for your post:
Unread 04-09-2020, 02:45 PM   #4
Major Tom
User
 
Major Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: S.E. Iowa
Posts: 484
Thanks: 533
Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts
Default

I've owned a 9mm luger with a really bad case of frosted bore. But, it was very accurate!
__________________
I Build Custom Pistol Boxes
Major Tom is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Major Tom for your post:
Unread 04-09-2020, 03:40 PM   #5
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber View Post
Sn 49491 is 10,000 numbers past the beginning of commercial P08 production, so likely dates from late-1909--early-1910. Definitely refinished, certainly adequate for shooting. Replacing the barrel on an all-matching Luger is a controversial act. Shoot it, you might find that it is more accurate than the barrel condition would lead you to believe.


--Dwight
By Luger book it should be between 1906-1908.. or I am wrong? (Also no more than 4000 were produced in 9mm)

And also I thought that later BUG was changed for BU only.

Last edited by briskspirit; 04-09-2020 at 04:55 PM.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2020, 06:34 PM   #6
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,903
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,320 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briskspirit View Post
By Luger book it should be between 1906-1908...
Which book please?


--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2020, 07:09 PM   #7
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,022
Thanks: 1,090
Thanked 5,180 Times in 1,703 Posts
Default

"Luger" is John Walter's book.
Ron
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 04-09-2020, 08:32 PM   #8
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber View Post
Which book please?


--Dwight
Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis

Quote from the book:
QUANTITY MADE
3,500 to 4,000 in 9mm Parabellum
SERIAL NUMBER RANGE: 25050 to 69000.

Some combination of this set of marks was
used on commercial Luger production starting
in 1900 and proceeding through the 1906
pattern guns. The crown/B and crown/U
indicated the actual proof, while the crown/G
is thought to indicate a rifled barrel. Later
the crown/G was dropped, with the other two
marks being applied sideways

Also here (lugerforum.com) there is a proof mark page with the same info about BUG and BU. That's why I thought it should be one of the early productions.

P.S.:
With all respect I am not arguing, I am trying to understand As I am getting obsessed with Lugers now and reading about each proof mark - so interesting!
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-09-2020, 08:40 PM   #9
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Gathering opinions on what should I do with that rust? CLP oil + 0000 steel wool? Or something heavier?

How do you think what it's worth? (Prior to corona virus )

What would you do if you've got that particular gun?
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 12:37 AM   #10
DavidJayUden
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 578
Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts
Default

Are you certain that the grooves in the barrel are not simply full of lead stripped off of passing lead bullets.
dju
DavidJayUden is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to DavidJayUden for your post:
Unread 04-10-2020, 12:39 AM   #11
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJayUden View Post
Are you certain that the grooves in the barrel are not simply full of lead stripped off of passing lead bullets.
dju
No, I am not.. Right now trying Wipe Out for 24 hours and after that will try Hoppe's.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 02:42 AM   #12
Doubs
User
 
Doubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Byron, Georgia
Posts: 1,700
Thanks: 792
Thanked 1,696 Times in 556 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briskspirit View Post
No, I am not.. Right now trying Wipe Out for 24 hours and after that will try Hoppe's.
If it is lead, a jag such as those made by Parker-Hale wrapped with a tight wad of medium steel wool will remove the lead easily enough. Use it from the chamber end, of course.

Steel wool is MUCH softer than barrel steel and WILL NOT harm your bore. You will clearly see the lead streaks that have been removed on the steel wool.
Doubs is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Doubs for your post:
Unread 04-10-2020, 02:49 AM   #13
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,903
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,320 Times in 432 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briskspirit View Post
Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis
Davis's "Standard Catalog" is full of misinformation and errors, and cannot be trusted by someone without Luger knowledge.

The serial number range quoted is approximately correct, although there are other variations witnin that range.

DWM's production archives are not to be found. Any estimate of commercial variation production is meaningless guesswork.

The c/B, c/U, c/G proof information is in wrong. This proof suite was in use from the beginning of Parabellum production in 1900 to 1912, when it was replaced by the c/N nitro proof. c/B and c/U are always found stamped sideways on the left receiver. They are also found stamped on the breechblock. c/G without question indicates a rifled barrel, and is always found there with the other two marks. This protocol was established by the German proof law of 1891.

My estimation of date of production--and it is assuredly only an estimate--is based on extensive serial number reporting of New Model variations correlated with the date of the German army's acceptance of the P08 and its subsequent commercial production.

The comprehensive Luger library approaches 50 volumes. I recommend two books to you: "The Luger Book" by John Walter; and "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon. Walters's book is fairly encyclopedic, and succeeds where Davis fails. Kenyon's book is over forty years old (and is therefore obsolete in some details), but it is still the only single-volume overview of Luger collector variations.

The best, most up-to-date information on everything Luger is to be found in this forum and Jan Still's Luger Forum https://luger.gunboards.com/activity.php.

--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Dwight Gruber for your post:
Unread 04-10-2020, 02:59 AM   #14
Geo99
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Whidbey Island WA
Posts: 398
Thanks: 102
Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by briskspirit View Post
How do you think what it's worth? (Prior to corona virus )
What does coronavirus have to do with the price of Lugers?

If you want to know if you overpaid, tell us what you paid for it.

What it's worth is going to vary a lot depending on if the barrel is really shot out or just clogged.

- Geo
__________________
"Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock."
- Will Rogers
Geo99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 10:56 AM   #15
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 7,022
Thanks: 1,090
Thanked 5,180 Times in 1,703 Posts
Default

Walter wrote 2 books, "Luger" in 1977 and "The Luger Book" in 1986. Since the reference "The Luger book..." in post #5 just said the single word "Luger" I incorrectly assumed it was Walters first book. I am in total agreement that the Davis book is a minefield for individuals with limited Luger experience.
Ron
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 11:00 AM   #16
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo99 View Post
What does coronavirus have to do with the price of Lugers?

If you want to know if you overpaid, tell us what you paid for it.

What it's worth is going to vary a lot depending on if the barrel is really shot out or just clogged.

- Geo
I've paid $700 for it and seems that barrel was shot out
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 11:03 AM   #17
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Dwight and Ron, thank you for explanation! Will buy "The Luger Book" today and forget about Davis for now.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-10-2020, 01:29 PM   #18
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts
Default

Due to the heavy polishing and hot dip refinish, I feel that it is matching and early proofed is immaterial, so just a shot out 9mm shooter. If it functions reliably, $700 is a fair price in todays market. TH
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Lugerdoc for your post:
Unread 04-10-2020, 07:19 PM   #19
Mac Cat
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mac Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 734
Thanks: 2,101
Thanked 613 Times in 330 Posts
Default

I'd love to see the bore after you have cleaned it good !
Let us know how it shoots, too.
Mac Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Mac Cat for your post:
Unread 04-10-2020, 08:36 PM   #20
briskspirit
User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 58
Thanks: 80
Thanked 28 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Cat View Post
I'd love to see the bore after you have cleaned it good !
Let us know how it shoots, too.
Here it is after cleaning. Wipe Out 12 hours - cleaned, 12 hours more - cleaned. A lot of blue colored goo(copper).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4112.jpg
Views:	287
Size:	114.6 KB
ID:	79428  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4114.jpg
Views:	298
Size:	102.2 KB
ID:	79429  


Last edited by briskspirit; 09-14-2020 at 09:59 AM.
briskspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to briskspirit for your post:
Reply

Tags
1906, 9mm, early lugers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com