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Unread 12-19-2007, 11:10 AM   #1
Big Tex
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Default Newbie here with a question.

Hi Guys, not sure if this is the correct forum to post this in so if it's not would one of the mods please move it for me? Newbie here with yet another dollar value question. I have a 1915 DWM Luger in 9MM Luger that I have owned for about 15 years now. I have never fired it and I only take it out twice a year to clean it so I've been thinking about selling it. It's numbers matching except for the magazine. When I bought it the guy I bought it from said it was in approximately 90% condition. I don't have any pictures of the pistol but I can take some and post them this evening when I get home from work. Anybody have a ball park idea of what it's worth? Thanks guys
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Unread 12-19-2007, 11:20 AM   #2
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Mark, welcome to the forum! Value; anywhere from $400-$1200+


This is a huge spread because much depends on if it is original, if all matching (including internal parts, firing pin, grips), if original period magazine, etc.

Has it been reblued at one time? Is it nickle plated (I don't think so from what you said, but...)

Your 90% and my 90% can be worlds apart.

Pictures are needed to even guess.

Generally even shooter lugers go for around $600, then start going up depending on condition. If pitted in an area, that brings collectgor value way down...

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Unread 12-19-2007, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edward Tinker
Mark, welcome to the forum! Value; anywhere from $400-$1200+


This is a huge spread because much depends on if it is original, if all matching (including internal parts, firing pin, grips), if original period magazine, etc.

Has it been reblued at one time? Is it nickle plated (I don't think so from what you said, but...)

Your 90% and my 90% can be worlds apart.

Pictures are needed to even guess.

Generally even shooter lugers go for around $600, then start going up depending on condition. If pitted in an area, that brings collectgor value way down...

Ed
Thanks Ed, I'll post some pics when I get home this evening. The guy I bought it from told me that all of the serial numbers match and he is/was a member of the Gunsmiths/Pistolsmiths guild so I trust what I was told.
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Unread 12-19-2007, 11:36 AM   #4
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Most likely he knows what he was talking about. However, many folks do not realize that internal and external parts are serial numbered with the last two of the sn. This includes the safety lever (you must look on the top looking down at it) to see the number. The trigger, the sear, the safety lever, the firing pin, the grips, the extractor, etc.

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Unread 12-19-2007, 11:50 AM   #5
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Mark,

Value really increases (and decreases) due to the variance of % remaining of original blue finish and % remaining of original straw finish on the small parts.

You can browse these two pages from the Simpson LTD site for their current 1915 offerings...you will notice quite a price spread due to just a difference of 1-2% ratings.

Those % ratings are very subjective as well. I find a seller has them in his mind higher and of course, a buyer has them lower in his mind...

You will also see that having a proper holster, TD tool, and matching magazines adds tremendously to value as well.

This is what is called a "rig". Some rigs are true vet bring-backs, others are put-together rigs by collectors and sold as such, and even some are put-togethers claimed to be original bring-backs with phonied-up bring-back doc's as well...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_181

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?...sort=2a&page=2
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Unread 12-19-2007, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pete Ebbink
Mark,

Value really increases (and decreases) due to the variance of % remaining of original blue finish and % remaining of original straw finish on the small parts.

You can browse these two pages from the Simpson LTD site for their current 1915 offerings...you will notice quite a price spread due to just a difference of 1-2% ratings.

Those % ratings are very subjective as well. I find a seller has them in his mind higher and of course, a buyer has them lower in his mind...

You will also see that having a proper holster, TD tool, and matching magazines adds tremendously to value as well.

This is what is called a "rig". Some rigs are true vet bring-backs, others are put-together rigs by collectors and sold as such, and even some are put-togethers claimed to be original bring-backs with phonied-up bring-back doc's as well...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_181

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?...sort=2a&page=2
Thanks Pete. I don't have a complete rig for the gun. I do have a holster for the pistol but I know it is not original to the gun. The "straw" parts look pretty good to me but I'm not an expert and i would probably be way off when talking about per centage of blue remaining so i won't even go there but i will post pics this evening. I'm probably going to have to come up with a ball park figure and sell it for close to that.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 09:36 PM   #7
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Ok guys here's a couple of pics I took of the Luger. I have more at different angles but some where darker than others. If you need to see different angles let me know and I'll see if I can get what you are looking for. So please tell me approximately what my Luger is worth. Thank you






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Unread 12-20-2007, 10:52 PM   #8
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Mark, There appears to be a round in the chamber...I suspect a reblue. Hard to say for sure without better photo's but that's what I think now.
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Unread 12-20-2007, 11:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair
Mark, There appears to be a round in the chamber...I suspect a reblue. Hard to say for sure without better photo's but that's what I think now.
Jerry Burney
Jerry, there is a snap cap in the chamber. I'll try and get some more pics in better light. What is it's value if it is reblued vs untouched?
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Unread 12-20-2007, 11:38 PM   #10
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Hi Mark,

Your photos seem to indicate a very nicely restored 1915 Imperial Luger, unfortunately.

For most collectors, that would drop value by 50% or more. In todays' terms, I would venture a guess of value at around $ 1350 or so.

For many collectors, a refinished (i.e. restoration) piece automatically falls into the "shooter" classification...unless the gun, originally, is rare and historically important. If the gun is rare or unique, being restored for some specialty collectors would not kill their interest to acquire such a rare piece.

However, a 1915-dated WWI Luger is not that rare. Author and expert Jan Stills in his new book estimates production of 105,000 P-08 Lugers with a 1915 chamber date.

The strawed parts on your gun certainly have the look of restoration work.


Here are three areas on your gun which may also indicate a restoration in its life :

The 1st. photo shows some pretty deep 'dents' on your gun. If that occurs on an original blue, you will usually expose the 'white" bare metal under the original blue and those dents will usually rust with time. Your photo seems to show blue deep down in the recesses of the dents :



The 2nd. photo shows the "dicing" pattern of the checkering on your toggle knobs more flat and diamond shaped. Usually the dicing has points to each diamond. The flats result from some fine sanding during the restoration work :



The 3rd. photo shows the top of the small pin that is driven through the top of the left side toggle knob. Usually this pin is "in the white" when original. Your pin appears to be blued over :



Here is a photo of a the same pin that is still "in the white" :



This 4th. photo shows a peculiar number stamping of "5" on the sear safety/bar. I do not believe it being a strawed color is correct, either :

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Unread 12-21-2007, 12:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pete Ebbink
Hi Mark,

Your photos seem to indicate a very nicely restored 1915 Imperial Luger, unfortunately.

For most collectors, that would drop value by 50% or more. In todays' terms, I would venture a guess of value at around $ 1350 or so.

For many collectors, a refinished (i.e. restoration) piece automatically falls into the "shooter" classification...unless the gun, originally, is rare and historically important. If the gun is rare or unique, being restored for some specialty collectors would not kill their interest to acquire such a rare piece.

However, a 1915-dated WWI Luger is not that rare. Author and expert Jan Stills in his new book estimates production of 105,000 P-08 Lugers with a 1915 chamber date.

The strawed parts on your gun certainly have the look of restoration work.


Here are three areas on your gun which may also indicate a restoration in its life :

The 1st. photo shows some pretty deep 'dents' on your gun. If that occurs on an original blue, you will usually expose the 'white" bare metal under the original blue and those dents will usually rust with time. Your photo seems to show blue deep down in the recesses of the dents :



The 2nd. photo shows the "dicing" pattern of the checkering on your toggle knobs more flat and diamond shaped. Usually the dicing has points to each diamond. The flats result from some fine sanding during the restoration work :



The 3rd. photo shows the top of the small pin that is driven through the top of the left side toggle knob. Usually this pin is "in the white" when original. Your pin appears to be blued over :



Here is a photo of a the same pin that is still "in the white" :



This 4th. photo shows a peculiar number stamping of "5" on the sear safety/bar. I do not believe it being a strawed color is correct, either :

Thanks Pete that's some excellent information. Sounds like it's alot like cars, alot of the value is in originality. Now I have a ball park figure and as in cars it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Thanks
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Unread 12-21-2007, 01:01 AM   #12
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Mark, For most collectors, that would drop value by 50% or more. In todays' terms, I would venture a guess of value at around $ 1350 or so.

Pete is spot on condition wise and has mentioned some areas I didn't have time to write about. Good job Pete!

He is also in a very generous mood. I am not sure I would value this pistol quite as high as he has. Although is's nice and shiney it's still restored instead of all original.
Even if it were in this condition and with it's original blue I question if it would bring $2600 USD. Hard to say with Lugers valued the way they are these days..Pete could be right. Now if it had a couple of matching mags and a nice holster...
If I found this pistol walking around a gun show I would be reluctant to pay more than a shooter price for it. Of course I'm cheap..Not as cheap as Ed Tinker but close!
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Unread 12-21-2007, 01:08 AM   #13
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Jerry, how did you know I was writing same as you... As a restored, rather than just backyard reblue, I'd say maybe $800-$900 value...
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Unread 12-21-2007, 09:31 AM   #14
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Thanks for all of your responses guys. Now I have a good idea of it's value and can feel comfortable if/when I decide to sell it. As I said I have a holster for it but it's not period correct and I doubt it would add much to the value. Thanks again for all of your help guys, happy collecting.
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Unread 12-21-2007, 09:34 AM   #15
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Hi Pete:

Thanks for the tutorial on identifying a reblue. Those are very good points to look for in evaluating whether a reblue has been done.

Hal
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Unread 12-21-2007, 11:21 AM   #16
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Ed, Like minds....Jerry
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Unread 12-21-2007, 12:42 PM   #17
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Besides the straw-color and the odd "5" stamp, what else might be wrong with this picture ???

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Unread 12-22-2007, 02:30 AM   #18
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The sideplate and frame show two entirely different wear patterns.
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