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Unread 02-08-2006, 11:48 PM   #1
Fritzer
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Default S code Krieghoff #3873

Hello Forum,

Well, with a little encouragement - here are the photo's of my new luger.
I am really a novice here, but here is what I've learned recently.

Toggle markings H-anchor-K over Krieghoff Suhl.
S code on chamber, serial # 3873 - makes it late S code (2300-4200)

Two mags with folded nickel tubes, aluminum bases, single pin.
one numbered 3873 with eagle/2
the other numbered 4205 c with eagle/54 (or maybe 154?)

Full serial on reciever, front of frame, and underside of barrel.
73 on underside of trigger plate, back of take down lever, two toggle sections, trigger.

Here are the photo's - post if I missed something important.

Thanks to all,
Fritz.

















More pic to come....
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Unread 02-08-2006, 11:59 PM   #2
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Default Part 2

















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Unread 02-09-2006, 01:16 AM   #3
Dwight Gruber
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Fritz,

Very, very cool. Curious, what are the two proof stamps on the breechblock? Is the rear-frame "thumbnail" heat-treatment visible? It appears that this gun has no witness mark at the barrel-receiver juncture, is this the case?

--Dwight
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Unread 02-09-2006, 02:40 AM   #4
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Dwight,
Good eye on the breech block. it does appear to be a double strike of the stamp. I doubted the first picture, and took it apart again. Here is a second photo.


You have me scratching my head about the "thumbnail" part of the frame though? I'd be happy to inspect or photograph whatever piece you're describing?

And a NO on the witness mark for the barrel, and a slightly better pic.




Pete,
This was the best I could do for the pic of the tool.
Under a bright light and magnification - I see an eagle/05 , then sometimes eagle/03. Maybe photo enhancemet will make it more clear?


Regards,
Fritz.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 04:16 AM   #5
Dwight Gruber
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Fritz,

Thanks for the extra pictures. It would be really interesting if you could look at the breechblock stamps under extreme magnification--an extreme closeup if you can manage it. The two stamps appear to be different, and I am not convinced from this photo that the lower one is e/2.

It appears to be characteristic of Krieghoffs that, more often than not, they do not have witness marks. I've lightened up your photo here to show that; I'm also interested to note the absence of worker's marks or other marks around the recoil lug, so unlike DWM, Efrurt, and Mauser.


I also processed the loading tool and enlarged it a bit. Absent a very magnified view, we will need to depend on your eye to identify it. Are you sure it isn't an e/63?


The "thumbnail", as I am informed, is a patch on the rear part of the frame under the rear toggle, where the toggle tail strikes it at full recoil. It is a small hardened area, heat-treated separately after the frame is completed. It takes blue differently from the steel around it, and looks like a thumbnail-shaped discoloration. It may not photograph easily, although you should see it fairly well.

--Dwight
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Unread 02-09-2006, 10:51 AM   #6
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Dwight,

I did look at the breechblock again.
Well, maybe the one above is different, but the lower one appears consistent with the other e/2's on the pistol.
Here is a picture with the receiver and breechblock.
In size and appearance, the upper stamp is similar to the center receiver stamp. What do you think?


Now I get the thumbnail. Yup, that's what it looks like - may not photograph that well, so I tried some sunlight.


Here was a missing inspection stamp photo


I'll try some better tool pictures, and closer examination later.

Thanks and Regards,
Fritz.
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Unread 02-09-2006, 11:55 AM   #7
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Dwight,

In a post on Jan's board, Volker from Germany has a pictoral of Krieghoff S code #3618. His breechblock is similarly marked - but considerably clearer

Breechblock

Here is a link to the entire post:
S #3618

Regards,
Fritz.

Last edited by Fritzer; 02-27-2009 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Fixed broken link to Jan's board
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Unread 02-10-2006, 09:12 PM   #8
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Default More Photo's

Dwight,

Here is a picture of the very slight tooling marks, on the ear


Got a decent pic of the toggle to turn out


And finally- I stole this ideal from somebodys online post, but it took me a bit to figure it out....

.. Parting shot
Regards,
Fritz.
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Unread 02-25-2006, 12:13 AM   #9
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Hey Fritzer...!

I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how I missed you excellent post/pictures - but I did..? I'm guessing you posted about when folks were noticing some issues with the Forum, so I missed this thread. For that....

Youe Late S is outstanding!!! From what I can see - it is "right on"...

A couple of notes/comments:

As you know, one of the mags is correct.. The other is not an HK mag. In my mind - since one mag is matched, it is still a matched HK - and rare to be matched from that variation.

Also - I did notice a holster in one of the pics. Did that come with the piece? If so - any details?

The breechblock and thumbprint are "exactly correct"...

The machine marks are correct...

The firing pins is exactly correct, along with the stamps/proofs on the small parts...

Fritz - simply outstanding!!!! I'm in awe of your HK - and the presentation with the pictures...!!!

Very nice!

John D.
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Unread 02-25-2006, 12:58 AM   #10
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Thanks John D.

Yes there was a 1937 dated holster, that I posted in the holster forum.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=13924

Bill Lyon helped me fill in the blanks to determine the makers mark
Franz & Karl Voegels., Koln-Deutz 1937

Pete directed me to examine the inside of the holster for an HK inspectors stamp, but I haven't been able to see one in that area.

It would also appear that the tool is E/63 marked, as suggested by Dwight.

I am very pleased that the pistol and one mag are right.

I'll continue to watch for your HK research and comments with a special interest now.

Regards,
Fritz.
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Unread 02-25-2006, 03:46 PM   #11
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Hi Fritz,

Congratulations on a very nice S-Code HK...

You had me running to my magazine stash...I have a very nice HK magazine # 3889...close to your # 3873...but not close enough...
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Unread 02-25-2006, 04:41 PM   #12
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Hi Fritz,
* Possibly you already know, your second mag with a Type 1, unblued ("in-white") tube would be correct for an Mauser Military "G" date. The Army Inspector's acceptance is a droop Eagle over 154 (1-MM-DE1).

* Those are some mighty fine pictures. Thank you for your in-depth record of the markings of a real Kreig "S" date for future reference.

* Trust this help.

Respectfully,
Bob
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Unread 02-26-2006, 08:59 PM   #13
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Bob,
Thank you for the detail on the second mag. I did not begin to research it's origin yet. That is a BIG help for me. I will keep an eye on the mag swap requests, and now know what it would be correct for.
Regards,
Fritz.
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Unread 06-04-2006, 01:52 PM   #14
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Fritz,

If you run into an HK magazine closer to # 2122...I would be happy to swap my # 3889 with you.
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