P-Kasten Snail drum box reproduction

lugerholsterrepair · 01-05-2012, 10:20 PM

We are proud to announce the successful creation of an accurate Imperial German Army replica trommell magazine box! As you will see from the photo’s included in this article..no detail was too small to consider.

It started right at two years ago when I was interested in acquiring a home for my growing collection of snail drums and loader. Loose drums are actually kind or awkward to leave laying around. They can be knocked out of the safe and are prone to damage if not properly stored. I researched the original boxes provided for storage and found that if one could be found it would be beyond my meager resources to afford. I did find one and 2 years later it is still for sale as of this writing, $5,500 or more as I remember.

I remembered my very good Friend and Artillery mentor George Anderson had an original trommel box. I approached George with the idea of replicating one for my drums and he was kind and generous enough to be receptive to my idea. After lengthy discussion with George.. a host of problems immediately arose. Wanting a box was one thing.. making it was not going to be easy. Two problems, were the hardware and the box itself. Either one of which would require dedicated master craftsmen..a metal machinist and a woodworker. Luckily I was blessed with both.

I could think of only two people who might take on such demanding work. Both good friends I knew I could trust..they had performed masterful work for me in the past and I was confident they could tackle this very detailed long term project. If I was going to do it ...wanted it correct in every detail. I was not disappointed.

I approached them both, Craig Creswell for the metal work and Kris Antczak for the wooden box. Most of you here on the Forums probably know Kris from his wooden Pistol magazines and stands. Craig is a Member here too but not as well known.
After some explanation of the project both enthusiastically agreed to participate.

All four of us began the long journey to replicate a WW1 German Army Artillery snail drum carry box, P-Kasten that would take hundreds of hours..going well beyond my expectations. It became a labor of love on my part..the desire to see the project to completion and actually have something I could only dream of ever adding to my small collection.

Both the metal hardware and the wooden box were going to be a challenge. Here at the very start was where George Anderson and his original box became extremely important. It was a must to understand the measurements, the methods of construction and the paint. We were spread all over the USA, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Colorado… and communication/ transferring the data was critical. This effort consumed us all with Emails by the hundreds.
The box must be the correct size to fit the drums and the loader with ammunition tray. To get it right it was necessary to get the box to Kris for accurate hands on measurements. George loaded his box..full of drums and loader and met Kris in North Carolina. Kris was able to have a complete box for a week. Measurements were made and the box was on its way. Many hundreds of miles later George’s box was returned to him.

Another problem was the wood the box was to be made of..Fresh green pine was not high on our list so we bided our time. I luckily came upon an estate sale with some School shelving from the 1950's. Beautiful old dry pine. Excellent for our purpose. Later in the Summer I was lucky enough to discover a Friend who was demolishing a building built in the 1920's with a floor made of gorgeous pine planks 12 inches wide and 10 feet long. It looked like new lumber right out of the mill but was almost a hundred years old! Take the time to notice the beautiful and accurate mortise joints in the corners of the P-Kasten.

While Kris busied himself with the intricacies of the wood box.. Craig, my master machinist was measuring up our hardware. The hardware had to be accurate to a fault..none of this is available on the market..even on old German ammunition boxes. It’s just not out there. Craig assured me the hardware could be replicated if he had enough time to make the dies for the hydraulic press necessary to bend and form the metal. Craig stepped up to the task and produced excellent hardware exactly like the original. He handmade each and every piece to perfection..Not only that but we had to have the correct rivets, Oddly enough some of the hardware is held on not only by screws but hand hammered rivets. To accurately re-create the box it was necessary to rivet the top parts..the hasps and the hinge. The hinge is also riveted to the body. I don’t mind saying this is no small task to hand hammer on these rivets...They must be fitted to length then mushroomed onto the metal and wood with a ball peen hammer. My Wife Ellie has been an Angel..it takes two people to delicately but forcefully handle the box and beat the hell out of it! When things go wrong and they often do.. I turn from mild mannered Dr. Jekyll to a raving lunatic. She helped in a very important way.

After the box was expertly made by Kris he sent it to me to finally fit drums and apply small wooden spacers. The drums fit exactly as they should due to Kris and his attention to detail. The drums in the box was a real thrill..They looked beautiful! I placed the spacers properly and our box was complete..the wood part that is.

Craig found the time to complete our hardware and when it came I was ecstatic! Even just placed on the box it added a look that made me smile. It was now up to me to find an accurate color for the box, make a stencil for the P. painted white on the front , to install the hardware and hand hammer the rivets. To install the hardware I found and used steel slotted screws I could fire blue.

Since George is color blind we had his Wife Sally determine the actual color of his original P-Kasten box. There was some paint left on it in places that gave us a good idea and Sally went to the paint store and came up with a handful of paint samples in oil based enamel and I think you might agree it’s very close to the original color.

So what you see in this short presentation is a replica P-Kasten .This is the first and only replica of a P-Kasten that has been made since 1918 that I know of. It was a challenge and shows what a few people with a passionate interest can do in the field of collecting. I have to hand it to Craig, Kris and George..Without them it couldn’t have been done.

Last but certainly not least I want to thank my long time Friend Ed Tinker for his advice and support for this project. He was a great influence and I appreciate his help to make it happen.

Jerry Burney

wlyon · 01-05-2012, 10:43 PM

Jerry
What a beautiful teamwork product.!!! Congratulations to all involved. Bill

Ron Wood · 01-05-2012, 11:37 PM

I figured it would be a work of art when it was finished...and it most definitely is. Great work guys, you have done yourself proud. If the team is the proud parents of this mastepiece, is George the godfather?

Dick Herman · 01-05-2012, 11:39 PM

Jerry,

By inself this is a really cool box, for its application it is spectacular.

Now you need to show pictures with the box fully loaded.

Thanks for sharing this project with us.

Dick

lugerholsterrepair · 01-06-2012, 12:21 AM

Bill, Ron and Dick..Thank you all for your kind words. Yes..George Anderson is without doubt the godfather of this project! I must credit Ed Tinker as well..Ed was involved in his own box project when it came to me to do this one. George went above and beyond with helping us to make this happen when he had plenty of other irons in the fire.
I cannot praise any of the fellows too much. I asked so much of each of them and they unfailingly delivered on every detail. It takes such dedication to do what they did and I am proud to be associated with them all.

Dick, Yes..I will load the box with drums, dust covers and it's loader tomorrow and get a few pictures added.

Jerry

cirelaw · 02-20-2012, 10:15 PM

Eric/cirelaw I ordered mine and can't wait till its arival in 2 weeks. I already have 2 drum and a loader, Yea for Santa Jerry! The 2 drums, both varieties from George!

lugerholsterrepair · 02-20-2012, 10:33 PM

Eric, Just putting the finishing touches on your box and getting it ready to ship. Hang in there!
Jerry

cirelaw · 02-20-2012, 10:45 PM

I can't wait to see it. I didn't know George was color blind! I'm saving four thousand dollars well worth it. Jerry could you maybe load one up to post a centerfold! AAAA loaded one has to be awesome.Ive got two to lend you! Please thank everyone and especially Saint Ellie!

cirelaw · 02-20-2012, 11:07 PM

Jerry I was remembering just how many leather idems you have made for me. You a Ted have done more than anyone promoting you fine work. Luv You Both!

lugerholsterrepair · 02-20-2012, 11:07 PM

I will try to get time to take a few more photo's..I have 6 drums..one more than I need to load a box!

cirelaw · 02-20-2012, 11:10 PM

No prob, I must have missed your previous way cool picture. Thats definitly enough!

cirelaw · 02-28-2012, 10:23 PM

Debbie will leave milK and cookies,

Germanpistolman · 12-05-2018, 03:23 AM

Hi Jerry,

I have a customer who is wanting to add a SD Transit Box to his Luger collection. Could you advise the cost if you should have 1-2 still available.

Best regards

Charles M.R

lugerholsterrepair · 12-05-2018, 10:15 AM

Charles, Thanks for the note.These have been out of production for some time. There may be some possibility that someone who bought one may want to sell it. If they read these posts they are welcome to contact you about it. We only made a very few..Perhaps 8 in all. This was 5-6 years ago.

I recently contacted Craig about making a spare part for a fellow who was missing one from an original box and he was unable to do it. Seems he shifted jobs and lost access to the heavy press necessary for forming the metal shapes.

The only possibility today is an original P Kasten box I know of. I would have to check to see if it is still available. But your best bet is to find a previous buyer..You may want to post a WTB advertisement here and see if anyone is interested in selling theirs.

cirelaw · 12-05-2018, 10:26 AM

My favorite display to store my drums, loader and ammo~ Eric

LU1900 · 12-06-2018, 04:42 AM

Hello ,I don't know the seller :
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=983327

Germanpistolman · 12-10-2018, 07:14 AM

Jerry, Thank you for your reply. I will take up your suggestion. Best regards, Charles M.R.

01-05-2012, 10:20 PM	#1
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	P-Kasten Snail drum box reproduction We are proud to announce the successful creation of an accurate Imperial German Army replica trommell magazine box! As you will see from the photo’s included in this article..no detail was too small to consider. It started right at two years ago when I was interested in acquiring a home for my growing collection of snail drums and loader. Loose drums are actually kind or awkward to leave laying around. They can be knocked out of the safe and are prone to damage if not properly stored. I researched the original boxes provided for storage and found that if one could be found it would be beyond my meager resources to afford. I did find one and 2 years later it is still for sale as of this writing, $5,500 or more as I remember. I remembered my very good Friend and Artillery mentor George Anderson had an original trommel box. I approached George with the idea of replicating one for my drums and he was kind and generous enough to be receptive to my idea. After lengthy discussion with George.. a host of problems immediately arose. Wanting a box was one thing.. making it was not going to be easy. Two problems, were the hardware and the box itself. Either one of which would require dedicated master craftsmen..a metal machinist and a woodworker. Luckily I was blessed with both. I could think of only two people who might take on such demanding work. Both good friends I knew I could trust..they had performed masterful work for me in the past and I was confident they could tackle this very detailed long term project. If I was going to do it ...wanted it correct in every detail. I was not disappointed. I approached them both, Craig Creswell for the metal work and Kris Antczak for the wooden box. Most of you here on the Forums probably know Kris from his wooden Pistol magazines and stands. Craig is a Member here too but not as well known. After some explanation of the project both enthusiastically agreed to participate. All four of us began the long journey to replicate a WW1 German Army Artillery snail drum carry box, P-Kasten that would take hundreds of hours..going well beyond my expectations. It became a labor of love on my part..the desire to see the project to completion and actually have something I could only dream of ever adding to my small collection. Both the metal hardware and the wooden box were going to be a challenge. Here at the very start was where George Anderson and his original box became extremely important. It was a must to understand the measurements, the methods of construction and the paint. We were spread all over the USA, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Colorado… and communication/ transferring the data was critical. This effort consumed us all with Emails by the hundreds. The box must be the correct size to fit the drums and the loader with ammunition tray. To get it right it was necessary to get the box to Kris for accurate hands on measurements. George loaded his box..full of drums and loader and met Kris in North Carolina. Kris was able to have a complete box for a week. Measurements were made and the box was on its way. Many hundreds of miles later George’s box was returned to him. Another problem was the wood the box was to be made of..Fresh green pine was not high on our list so we bided our time. I luckily came upon an estate sale with some School shelving from the 1950's. Beautiful old dry pine. Excellent for our purpose. Later in the Summer I was lucky enough to discover a Friend who was demolishing a building built in the 1920's with a floor made of gorgeous pine planks 12 inches wide and 10 feet long. It looked like new lumber right out of the mill but was almost a hundred years old! Take the time to notice the beautiful and accurate mortise joints in the corners of the P-Kasten. While Kris busied himself with the intricacies of the wood box.. Craig, my master machinist was measuring up our hardware. The hardware had to be accurate to a fault..none of this is available on the market..even on old German ammunition boxes. It’s just not out there. Craig assured me the hardware could be replicated if he had enough time to make the dies for the hydraulic press necessary to bend and form the metal. Craig stepped up to the task and produced excellent hardware exactly like the original. He handmade each and every piece to perfection..Not only that but we had to have the correct rivets, Oddly enough some of the hardware is held on not only by screws but hand hammered rivets. To accurately re-create the box it was necessary to rivet the top parts..the hasps and the hinge. The hinge is also riveted to the body. I don’t mind saying this is no small task to hand hammer on these rivets...They must be fitted to length then mushroomed onto the metal and wood with a ball peen hammer. My Wife Ellie has been an Angel..it takes two people to delicately but forcefully handle the box and beat the hell out of it! When things go wrong and they often do.. I turn from mild mannered Dr. Jekyll to a raving lunatic. She helped in a very important way. After the box was expertly made by Kris he sent it to me to finally fit drums and apply small wooden spacers. The drums fit exactly as they should due to Kris and his attention to detail. The drums in the box was a real thrill..They looked beautiful! I placed the spacers properly and our box was complete..the wood part that is. Craig found the time to complete our hardware and when it came I was ecstatic! Even just placed on the box it added a look that made me smile. It was now up to me to find an accurate color for the box, make a stencil for the P. painted white on the front , to install the hardware and hand hammer the rivets. To install the hardware I found and used steel slotted screws I could fire blue. Since George is color blind we had his Wife Sally determine the actual color of his original P-Kasten box. There was some paint left on it in places that gave us a good idea and Sally went to the paint store and came up with a handful of paint samples in oil based enamel and I think you might agree it’s very close to the original color. So what you see in this short presentation is a replica P-Kasten .This is the first and only replica of a P-Kasten that has been made since 1918 that I know of. It was a challenge and shows what a few people with a passionate interest can do in the field of collecting. I have to hand it to Craig, Kris and George..Without them it couldn’t have been done. Last but certainly not least I want to thank my long time Friend Ed Tinker for his advice and support for this project. He was a great influence and I appreciate his help to make it happen. Jerry Burney Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know." Last edited by lugerholsterrepair; 01-06-2012 at 12:30 AM.

01-05-2012, 10:43 PM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Jerry What a beautiful teamwork product.!!! Congratulations to all involved. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-05-2012, 11:37 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I figured it would be a work of art when it was finished...and it most definitely is. Great work guys, you have done yourself proud. If the team is the proud parents of this mastepiece, is George the godfather? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-06-2012, 12:21 AM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Bill, Ron and Dick..Thank you all for your kind words. Yes..George Anderson is without doubt the godfather of this project! I must credit Ed Tinker as well..Ed was involved in his own box project when it came to me to do this one. George went above and beyond with helping us to make this happen when he had plenty of other irons in the fire. I cannot praise any of the fellows too much. I asked so much of each of them and they unfailingly delivered on every detail. It takes such dedication to do what they did and I am proud to be associated with them all. Dick, Yes..I will load the box with drums, dust covers and it's loader tomorrow and get a few pictures added. Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-20-2012, 10:33 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Eric, Just putting the finishing touches on your box and getting it ready to ship. Hang in there! Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-05-2012, 11:39 PM	#4
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Jerry, By inself this is a really cool box, for its application it is spectacular. Now you need to show pictures with the box fully loaded. Thanks for sharing this project with us. Dick

02-20-2012, 10:15 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Eric/cirelaw I ordered mine and can't wait till its arival in 2 weeks. I already have 2 drum and a loader, Yea for Santa Jerry! The 2 drums, both varieties from George!

02-20-2012, 10:45 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I can't wait to see it. I didn't know George was color blind! I'm saving four thousand dollars well worth it. Jerry could you maybe load one up to post a centerfold! AAAA loaded one has to be awesome.Ive got two to lend you! Please thank everyone and especially Saint Ellie!

02-20-2012, 11:07 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Jerry I was remembering just how many leather idems you have made for me. You a Ted have done more than anyone promoting you fine work. Luv You Both!

02-20-2012, 11:10 PM	#11
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	No prob, I must have missed your previous way cool picture. Thats definitly enough!

02-28-2012, 10:23 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Santa is on his way tommorow morning Debbie will leave milK and cookies, Attached Images

12-05-2018, 03:23 AM	#13
Germanpistolman User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 70 Thanks: 16 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Snaildrum Wood Transit Case Hi Jerry, I have a customer who is wanting to add a SD Transit Box to his Luger collection. Could you advise the cost if you should have 1-2 still available. Best regards Charles M.R __________________ CMR Firearms Luger and Mauser Broomhandle Pistols etc. WhatsApp: 44 7773 885556

12-05-2018, 10:15 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Charles, Thanks for the note.These have been out of production for some time. There may be some possibility that someone who bought one may want to sell it. If they read these posts they are welcome to contact you about it. We only made a very few..Perhaps 8 in all. This was 5-6 years ago. I recently contacted Craig about making a spare part for a fellow who was missing one from an original box and he was unable to do it. Seems he shifted jobs and lost access to the heavy press necessary for forming the metal shapes. The only possibility today is an original P Kasten box I know of. I would have to check to see if it is still available. But your best bet is to find a previous buyer..You may want to post a WTB advertisement here and see if anyone is interested in selling theirs. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-05-2018, 10:26 AM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I bought this one from jerry years ago! My favorite display to store my drums, loader and ammo~ Eric Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-06-2018, 04:42 AM	#16
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	Hello ,I don't know the seller : http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=983327 __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

12-10-2018, 07:14 AM	#17
Germanpistolman User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 70 Thanks: 16 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Jerry, Thank you for your reply. I will take up your suggestion. Best regards, Charles M.R. __________________ CMR Firearms Luger and Mauser Broomhandle Pistols etc. WhatsApp: 44 7773 885556