Mec-Gar measurements

wworker · 09-07-2005, 03:14 PM

I have 2 questions.

Where do you guys buy the Mec Gar magazines?

Is there a better magazine to use than Mec Gar?

Dwight Gruber · 09-07-2005, 04:04 PM

wworker,

Have you checked gun shops in your area?

They are often found for sale on ebay and the Gunbroker and Auction Arms auction sites.

You might try gun shows in your area, if they have magazine sales tables.

I've made many tests and find that Mec Gar are hands down the best magazines going for shooting my Lugers.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 09-07-2005, 04:29 PM

The Mec-Gar type are wonderful for after-market magazines... I agree with Dwight.

BUT IMHO, The very best magazines are the ORIGINAL extruded steel type. During the war they were marked with FXO 37

After the war, the East Germans continued to manufacture them for their own use and they were made on the same machinery... they are marked 1001

Either of this type will be sturdier simple because of construction, and they will be more expensive than the stamped steel shell type, but for a shooter, they can't be beat. Buy the aluminum bottom type, since they are less likely to get broken when you drop them... (and you WILL drop them from time to time).

If you hurry, and check this ebay listing that ends in a couple of hours, you can see good photos of this type

Ebay Item 6557832100

Welcome to the forum.

Hugh · 09-07-2005, 04:52 PM

I agree completely with John!!! The Swiss mags are great too, I use them in several of my "shooters", but they are not as sturdy as the extruded mags.
I would rate the fxo type #1, Swiss #2, and Meg Gar #3.

Luke · 09-07-2005, 05:52 PM

In my Finnish Luger with 120mm barrel I have found that the Triple-K stainless with black plastic bottoms are most reliable. I have tried the fxo type, MecGar, and original Imperial mags in this gun. This brand (Triple-K) is conceptually well designed, but poorly implemented, and they just look cheap. Nevertheless, in this particular Luger, I have never experienced a cycle failure with the two Triple-Ks that I have.

I have two black-plastic-bottom fxo extruded mags. The bottoms have been seriously chipped . . . probably made of a Bakelite-type material . . . and are ugly. Having seen quite a few other fxo mags with chipped bottoms, I suspect this is a common problem. Has anyone ever tried replacing these chipped bottoms with nice looking aluminum or wood bottoms? Success? Folly?

Luke

unspellable · 09-07-2005, 06:33 PM

Any truth in the rumour that the Mec Gars are shorter front to back to accomodate today's short ammo?

Dwight Gruber · 09-07-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unspellable
Any truth in the rumour that the Mec Gars are shorter front to back to accomodate today's short ammo?

I thought you started that rumor...??

--Dwight

wworker · 09-07-2005, 09:29 PM

John, I missed that Ebay auction. Was working on house repairs at the time.

The bad thing about Ebay or the gun auctions is that it is too easy to spend too much time in them looking at stuff.

But thanks to all of you guys for the advice. Now all I gotta do is find either a FXO or Mec Gar at a reasonable price.

John Sabato · 09-08-2005, 12:16 PM

Luke, I have an FXO mag that I purchased on eBay a couple of years ago... I got it cheap because the mag had been modified by the previous owner to replace the original bottom with a crudely made wooden one... the mag bottom had been modified with a hand ground half moon to accomodate the wooden bottom... to make matters worse, the body of the mag had been stressed during the conversion to the point where it wouldn't even insert into either of the Lugers I owned.

Solution... sent it to Gerry Tomek...(GT) who used his excellent mag recovery tools to straighten the body, and then installed one of his excellent aluminum mag bottoms (standard configuration-not FXO).

It is the most reliable of all the Luger mags I own. So to answer your question... if you can't get a replacement FXO bottom... the mag CAN be modified to use a standard bottom (shooter grade magazines only please! Don't anyone modify and original mag please unless it has somehow lost it's collector value).

Vlim · 09-08-2005, 01:03 PM

Hi,

Reliability also depends on the type of pistol you stick the magazine in.
My 1906 Dutch doesn't really like the mec-gar and shoots/feeds great using a 1930s wood bottom blued magazine (crimped style).

My S/42 functions flawlessly with a mec-gar.

The postwar Mauser Parabellum feeds excellently with the mec-gar (better than with the original Dutch made magazines

).

unspellable · 09-08-2005, 01:23 PM

All this talk of reliability makes me miss the 1920 Commercial I had years ago. It was chambered for the 7.65 cartrdige. The entire time I owned it, it never once produced a malfunction. I used to load it with lead semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters. You can't gripe if it will digest full wadcutters.

Luke · 09-08-2005, 02:24 PM

G. v - - -

I should have mentioned that I have used MecGar successfully on several other shooters. Strangely, the Finnish Parabellum is the only one which will not function properly with MecGar, but it loves the Triple-K.

Luke

wworker · 09-15-2005, 08:09 PM

So far, this website http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/pg43.html has the best price on Mec-Gar P.08 Luger magazines, $19.95 plus shipping.

Dwight Gruber · 10-17-2005, 08:41 PM

Note 10/24:

I have revised this chart to include an fxo magazine, graciously provided me by John Sabato for the purpose. I have also recalculated the average internal OAL to include only the original magazines; this permits an actual comparison of the aftermarket mags to the originals.

--DG

A little while back Unspellable wondered about the internal overall length (OAL) of Mec Gar magazines compared to original Luger magazines (in a post I can't find rght now or I'd respond there). The thesis is, that since the modern 9mm Parabellum cartridge is shorter than the original design, a shorter internal magazine OAL is necessary in order for the bullets to ride on the front of the magazine and sit at the correct angle for proper feeding into the chamber. Mec-Gar magazines are by reputation particularly good-feeding magazines for Lugers. The question, then, is: do they have a shorter internal OAL to compensate for modern cartridge length?

Having just purchased a shiny new digital caliper, I decided to break it in by making some measurements. As the inside jaws are not quite long enough to make the direct interior measurement, I measured the exterior and the thickness of the metal of the magazine body, and then subtracted the front and rear thickness to get the internal measurement. I thought it would be useful to see a wide selection of magazines, so I measured a representitive selection of what I have at hand. Measurements are in inches.

magazine.................ext. OAL..............guage...............int.OAL
DWM Comm................1,092.................,018..................1,056
DWM Comm................1,090.................,018..................1,054

Erfurt Armorer Spare....1,097.................,018................1,061
(2 stamps)
Erfurt #8895t...............1,098.................,016................1,066
(1 stamp)

DWM 1st Iss. #1026...1,105.................,018.................1,069
DWM #5881d..............1,097.................,018.................1,061

DWM Police..................1,097................,017..................1,063
(u Commercial)

Mauser #4289w..........1,067.................,013.................1,041
(blued tube sE/63)

FXO #39xx u................1,100..................,015...............1,070

Avg..................................................................... ..........1,060
.........................................................(without Mauser) 1,063

MecGar.........................1,094.................,016............... .1,062

KKK metal.....................1,090.................,013................1,06 4
KKK plastic....................1,096.................,013................1,0 70

Mexican........................1,094.................,016............... .1,062

It is noteworthy that there seems to be quite a range of interior OAL in Luger magazines. It strikes me as unusual that the Mauser magazine is substantially shorter than the Commercial and Imperial magazines. As it is the only one I have, I cannot check to see if it is anomalous, or standard for that model. I can tell you that it does not feed for beans.

For the subject at hand, Mec-Gar magazines' interior OAL fall right at the average interior OAL of the original magazines. I leave it to others to draw conclusions from this exercise.

--Dwight

Vlim · 10-18-2005, 08:06 AM

Dwight,

Very interesting study!

I looked up the dimensions of the magazine according to the 1904 drawings:

External dimension: 1.100 inch.
Internal dimension: 1.060 inch.

It appears MecGar used the original specifications.

John Sabato · 10-18-2005, 11:29 AM

Dwight,

Shoot me your mailing address in a PM and I will send you an FXO mag I recently acquired to measure for your study. I have a digital caliper as well, and I know I could measure it myself, but I am sure that you using the same tool and the same methods would be more precise than me trying to mimic your effort. You can just send it back when you are done measuring/testing...

Chuckc · 10-18-2005, 06:43 PM

I bought a Mec-Gar magazine directly from Mec-Gar. I enterd MecGar on Google and got their web address. I think I bought it for less than the ones were going for on e-Bay. I wanted a nickel mag instead of the black one, which seem to be more numerous on e-Bay.

They are at www.Mec-Gar.com

Follow the trail to luger magazines and they are available for $32 plus some change, and plus shipping. Both black and nickel are available. This should help you decide how much to bid on e-Bay if you want to do that.

Sieger · 10-20-2005, 11:51 PM

Dwight:

Thanks for all of the detailed work!!!

Sieger

benignant · 10-23-2005, 02:20 AM

Here's a couple of places that list them cheaper than MecGar:

http://arizonagunrunners.com/Product...ar/mecgar.html

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/lugpo89mm8rd.html

Dwight Gruber · 10-25-2005, 03:05 AM

I have revised the measurement post above with the inclusion of an fxo magazine, which John Sabato sent me for the purpose. I have also recalculated the interior OAL average to include only the original magazines, the better to compare modern magazines to them.

--Dwight

09-08-2005, 12:16 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Luke, I have an FXO mag that I purchased on eBay a couple of years ago... I got it cheap because the mag had been modified by the previous owner to replace the original bottom with a crudely made wooden one... the mag bottom had been modified with a hand ground half moon to accomodate the wooden bottom... to make matters worse, the body of the mag had been stressed during the conversion to the point where it wouldn't even insert into either of the Lugers I owned. Solution... sent it to Gerry Tomek...(GT) who used his excellent mag recovery tools to straighten the body, and then installed one of his excellent aluminum mag bottoms (standard configuration-not FXO). It is the most reliable of all the Luger mags I own. So to answer your question... if you can't get a replacement FXO bottom... the mag CAN be modified to use a standard bottom (shooter grade magazines only please! Don't anyone modify and original mag please unless it has somehow lost it's collector value). __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-08-2005, 02:24 PM	#12
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	G. v - - - I should have mentioned that I have used MecGar successfully on several other shooters. Strangely, the Finnish Parabellum is the only one which will not function properly with MecGar, but it loves the Triple-K. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

10-17-2005, 08:41 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Mec-Gar measurements Note 10/24: I have revised this chart to include an fxo magazine, graciously provided me by John Sabato for the purpose. I have also recalculated the average internal OAL to include only the original magazines; this permits an actual comparison of the aftermarket mags to the originals. --DG A little while back Unspellable wondered about the internal overall length (OAL) of Mec Gar magazines compared to original Luger magazines (in a post I can't find rght now or I'd respond there). The thesis is, that since the modern 9mm Parabellum cartridge is shorter than the original design, a shorter internal magazine OAL is necessary in order for the bullets to ride on the front of the magazine and sit at the correct angle for proper feeding into the chamber. Mec-Gar magazines are by reputation particularly good-feeding magazines for Lugers. The question, then, is: do they have a shorter internal OAL to compensate for modern cartridge length? Having just purchased a shiny new digital caliper, I decided to break it in by making some measurements. As the inside jaws are not quite long enough to make the direct interior measurement, I measured the exterior and the thickness of the metal of the magazine body, and then subtracted the front and rear thickness to get the internal measurement. I thought it would be useful to see a wide selection of magazines, so I measured a representitive selection of what I have at hand. Measurements are in inches. magazine.................ext. OAL..............guage...............int.OAL DWM Comm................1,092.................,018..................1,056 DWM Comm................1,090.................,018..................1,054 Erfurt Armorer Spare....1,097.................,018................1,061 (2 stamps) Erfurt #8895t...............1,098.................,016................1,066 (1 stamp) DWM 1st Iss. #1026...1,105.................,018.................1,069 DWM #5881d..............1,097.................,018.................1,061 DWM Police..................1,097................,017..................1,063 (u Commercial) Mauser #4289w..........1,067.................,013.................1,041 (blued tube sE/63) FXO #39xx u................1,100..................,015...............1,070 Avg..................................................................... ..........1,060 .........................................................(without Mauser) 1,063 MecGar.........................1,094.................,016............... .1,062 KKK metal.....................1,090.................,013................1,06 4 KKK plastic....................1,096.................,013................1,0 70 Mexican........................1,094.................,016............... .1,062 It is noteworthy that there seems to be quite a range of interior OAL in Luger magazines. It strikes me as unusual that the Mauser magazine is substantially shorter than the Commercial and Imperial magazines. As it is the only one I have, I cannot check to see if it is anomalous, or standard for that model. I can tell you that it does not feed for beans. For the subject at hand, Mec-Gar magazines' interior OAL fall right at the average interior OAL of the original magazines. I leave it to others to draw conclusions from this exercise. --Dwight

10-18-2005, 11:29 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Dwight, Shoot me your mailing address in a PM and I will send you an FXO mag I recently acquired to measure for your study. I have a digital caliper as well, and I know I could measure it myself, but I am sure that you using the same tool and the same methods would be more precise than me trying to mimic your effort. You can just send it back when you are done measuring/testing... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-18-2005, 06:43 PM	#17
Chuckc User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cave Creek, AZ Posts: 68 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I bought a Mec-Gar magazine directly from Mec-Gar. I enterd MecGar on Google and got their web address. I think I bought it for less than the ones were going for on e-Bay. I wanted a nickel mag instead of the black one, which seem to be more numerous on e-Bay. They are at www.Mec-Gar.com Follow the trail to luger magazines and they are available for $32 plus some change, and plus shipping. Both black and nickel are available. This should help you decide how much to bid on e-Bay if you want to do that. __________________ Art in metal and wood

09-07-2005, 03:14 PM	#1
wworker User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mec Gar magazines I have 2 questions. Where do you guys buy the Mec Gar magazines? Is there a better magazine to use than Mec Gar?

09-07-2005, 04:04 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	wworker, Have you checked gun shops in your area? They are often found for sale on ebay and the Gunbroker and Auction Arms auction sites. You might try gun shows in your area, if they have magazine sales tables. I've made many tests and find that Mec Gar are hands down the best magazines going for shooting my Lugers. --Dwight

09-07-2005, 04:29 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The Mec-Gar type are wonderful for after-market magazines... I agree with Dwight. BUT IMHO, The very best magazines are the ORIGINAL extruded steel type. During the war they were marked with FXO 37 After the war, the East Germans continued to manufacture them for their own use and they were made on the same machinery... they are marked 1001 Either of this type will be sturdier simple because of construction, and they will be more expensive than the stamped steel shell type, but for a shooter, they can't be beat. Buy the aluminum bottom type, since they are less likely to get broken when you drop them... (and you WILL drop them from time to time). If you hurry, and check this ebay listing that ends in a couple of hours, you can see good photos of this type Ebay Item 6557832100 Welcome to the forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-07-2005, 04:52 PM	#4
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I agree completely with John!!! The Swiss mags are great too, I use them in several of my "shooters", but they are not as sturdy as the extruded mags. I would rate the fxo type #1, Swiss #2, and Meg Gar #3. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-07-2005, 05:52 PM	#5
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	In my Finnish Luger with 120mm barrel I have found that the Triple-K stainless with black plastic bottoms are most reliable. I have tried the fxo type, MecGar, and original Imperial mags in this gun. This brand (Triple-K) is conceptually well designed, but poorly implemented, and they just look cheap. Nevertheless, in this particular Luger, I have never experienced a cycle failure with the two Triple-Ks that I have. I have two black-plastic-bottom fxo extruded mags. The bottoms have been seriously chipped . . . probably made of a Bakelite-type material . . . and are ugly. Having seen quite a few other fxo mags with chipped bottoms, I suspect this is a common problem. Has anyone ever tried replacing these chipped bottoms with nice looking aluminum or wood bottoms? Success? Folly? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

09-07-2005, 06:33 PM	#6
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Any truth in the rumour that the Mec Gars are shorter front to back to accomodate today's short ammo?

09-07-2005, 09:29 PM	#8
wworker User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, I missed that Ebay auction. Was working on house repairs at the time. The bad thing about Ebay or the gun auctions is that it is too easy to spend too much time in them looking at stuff. But thanks to all of you guys for the advice. Now all I gotta do is find either a FXO or Mec Gar at a reasonable price.

09-08-2005, 01:03 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,035 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,888 Times in 1,187 Posts	Hi, Reliability also depends on the type of pistol you stick the magazine in. My 1906 Dutch doesn't really like the mec-gar and shoots/feeds great using a 1930s wood bottom blued magazine (crimped style). My S/42 functions flawlessly with a mec-gar. The postwar Mauser Parabellum feeds excellently with the mec-gar (better than with the original Dutch made magazines ).

09-08-2005, 01:23 PM	#11
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	All this talk of reliability makes me miss the 1920 Commercial I had years ago. It was chambered for the 7.65 cartrdige. The entire time I owned it, it never once produced a malfunction. I used to load it with lead semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters. You can't gripe if it will digest full wadcutters.

09-15-2005, 08:09 PM	#13
wworker User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So far, this website http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/pg43.html has the best price on Mec-Gar P.08 Luger magazines, $19.95 plus shipping.

10-18-2005, 08:06 AM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,035 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,888 Times in 1,187 Posts	Dwight, Very interesting study! I looked up the dimensions of the magazine according to the 1904 drawings: External dimension: 1.100 inch. Internal dimension: 1.060 inch. It appears MecGar used the original specifications.

10-20-2005, 11:51 PM	#18
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Dwight: Thanks for all of the detailed work!!! Sieger

10-23-2005, 02:20 AM	#19
benignant New User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: LA - Lower Alabama Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's a couple of places that list them cheaper than MecGar: http://arizonagunrunners.com/Product...ar/mecgar.html http://www.cdnninvestments.com/lugpo89mm8rd.html

10-25-2005, 03:05 AM	#20
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	I have revised the measurement post above with the inclusion of an fxo magazine, which John Sabato sent me for the purpose. I have also recalculated the interior OAL average to include only the original magazines, the better to compare modern magazines to them. --Dwight