1914 Navy for your inspection

grapppa · 07-28-2005, 08:40 PM

I have for our forum of experts a specimen for your evaluation. I would appreciate an evaluation of the fair market price.

Damage to barrel...

Giant pictures here:
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0894.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0895.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0896.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0897.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0898.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0899.jpg
http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0900.jpg

grapppa · 07-28-2005, 08:41 PM

Edward Tinker · 07-28-2005, 08:59 PM

Paul, looks nice, is it yours?

BTW, I made the pictures much smaller and put them on this forum, it is much better to have them combined with the text and the photos, plus each picture was 2.5 megabytes apiece, folks on dial up would have died from old age before they could see half of them

Ed

Navy · 07-28-2005, 09:21 PM

A lovely gun, EXCEPT the sideplate is wrong. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. The gun would wholesale (to a dealer) @ ~$1500; retail, about $1800.

If it were my gun, I would part it out.

Tom A.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-28-2005, 11:25 PM

A sad shape for this old Sailor to be in...I bought one a year or so ago just about like it. All matching canon and all matching receiver, both different! Got it for a shooter. I particularly like the 6" barrel to shoot and the sights are nice. I think I paid $1200.00 at the time. It is an excellent shooter, one of my favorites.
Tom, Shame! To consider parting out this old girl is sacreligous! It's partially parted already with the Erfurt sideplate and other mismatched parts but would still make a great pistol if it fires with the mismatched sideplate. Sometimes they won't. I won't shoot my collector Navy's. I might be a little nervous about the barrel being twisted, someone might have done some damage to the forks. Jerry Burney

grapppa · 07-29-2005, 09:13 AM

I have the gun in my possession - 3 day inspection period is over today. Well, I paid 3K and will kindly ask for a refund if $1800 (ok $2000) is the Fair Mkt Value.

Summary. The gun is authentic Navy. The gun has mismatched sideplate (Erfurt) and mismatching grips; non matching mag although authentic Navy. These are obvious and I was of course aware of this going in to the deal. The bore is fair to poor BTW.

(Are there other mismatched parts?) Gosh though, these guns are so nice lookin... I surmise that in addition to the relative rarity of the Navy the proportions are just perfect and these 2 factors contribute to the overall desirability.

Thanks all and the search is back ON

Pete Ebbink · 08-02-2005, 11:40 AM

Hi Paul,

I like this M1908 (8-10-05 correction : M1914) Navy...just not at the price. $ 1800-1900 would have been my price trigger.

But I think a hunt for a proper Navy magazine and a "83" sideplate would not be unreasonable pursuits.

I, personally, would not loose sleep over the mis-matched wooden grip plates. Just something that probably wore out during the life of a nearly 97 year old pistol...

grapppa · 08-02-2005, 04:42 PM

Thanks Pete for your opinion. To clarify however, what is not correct about the mag? It has a crown M and 1931 serial number - unfortunately, this you cannot discern from the pictures as I couldnt get it to be visible. OR is it that it is a navy mag but not correct for this era pistol?

Pete Ebbink · 08-02-2005, 04:49 PM

Hi Paul,

Sorry...I was not aware your mag had the C/M and that is was numbered.

Given this...other than a matching mag...I do not think you could improve on yours more. I believe both smooth wood and/or concentric circled mag's are "correct" for a M1908 (8-10-05 corection : M1914) anchor luger...(Tom A. will correct me if I am wrong...).

Navy · 08-02-2005, 05:48 PM

Pete,

You are right on.

Tom A

Big Norm · 08-10-2005, 02:20 AM

Golly,
I've just sat here for the last hour straining my eyeballs while down loading the pictures and trying to make out the serial number on the magazine. It would hurt to see a number that I needed on this gun. I kept thinking, while I was looking that this gun, that it was a prize at one time and some yahoo had to mess it up. What a shame.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 08-10-2005, 11:01 AM

Just like the magazine exchange thread... what do you guys think of starting a thread where folks who one relatively rare guns like this one could post the various serial numbers of the parts so that other owners could see them. Just like the magazine thread, agreements could be made for an exchange of parts (even trade, even condition, or some bartering) as long as the parts owners are satisfied...

I recall with much satisfaction a recent trade of this sort here on the Lugerforum that reunited an Artillery stock with it's rightful Luger... a VERY gracious jesture on the part of the matching stock... at no cost but the postage...

whatyoufolksthink?

pipeman45 · 08-10-2005, 03:25 PM

I think thats a great idea. Not that I have anything rare or ever will, but that I would get to study and drool over some mighty fine guns. Just warn us in advance as I will have to get a slobber protector for the keyboard.

Big Norm · 08-10-2005, 05:18 PM

John,
I remember that artillery stock thingy. It made me feel good, even though I wasn't involved.But I have gotten the Don Hallock Luger magazine list for a long time and I have seen how involved that got. Geez! There is a lot of different Luger magazines out there. Especially the Nazi era. I think that Hallocks lists usually were 8 pages long. Many times I found the right serial number but the magazine was for the wrong era.In spite of all the efforts by this forum, many people don't know what the proper magazine should be for their Luger.The sellers sometimes don't know what they have. I know that once I move out of the WW1 era, I am a baby in the woods.

Maybe, for testing purposes, a navy Luger magazine list could work because of their unique serial number marking and proof mark.

Just a thought.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 08-10-2005, 05:26 PM

Thanks Norm,

I think that member's providing just a list of what non-matching parts one of your Lugers might have and the manufacturer (if known) and the serial number/proofs would be all that would be necessary...

any prospective user would only have to use the forum's search function to find if there is a match to something needed...

It isn't like we are going to creat a database or anything that complex. the stock matching thread is a good example. Someone looking for a matching stock only has to that forum and use search for a particular number to see if what they need is there...

Big Norm · 08-10-2005, 06:15 PM

John,
lets see. I am thinking of a list and not individual posts. You would need a code for manufacture to distingush a DWM, Erfurt or unknown. The users member number would work to help sort. But then you would need something to tell us who that members number belongs to. Give a code for the many different parts and if they are original or repro.Something to tell if its a trade, sale or either.A code to tell the condition. Something to say that the part has been sold and a corresponding code to delete. Holy cow! I am getting a hang over head ache and I am only drinking water during this humid weather.

Maybe I should look to see the artillery Luger stock exchange to see if there was a change since I last looked at it. I don't remember any search engine or delete post button that would go into EACH POST and look for specific serial numbers. But it has been a long time since I looked into that section of the artilleries.

But John, you know more about current computers and what they can do than I do. If you have a thought on how to do it, then go for it. It most certainly would expand the already great usefullness of this forum. I think that it would take a lot of work and effort to maintain a computer program to do what you MIGHT be thinking of. But if you succeed...Jan Stills watch out! The Luger forums taking over. HI OH Silver away!
Big Norm

07-28-2005, 08:40 PM	#1
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1914 Navy for your inspection I have for our forum of experts a specimen for your evaluation. I would appreciate an evaluation of the fair market price. Damage to barrel... Giant pictures here: http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0894.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0895.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0896.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0897.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0898.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0899.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0900.jpg

07-28-2005, 08:41 PM	#2
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1914 Navy for your inspection - Part II GIANT Photos here: http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0901.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0904.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0905.jpg The mismatched sideplate. Is this an Erfurt ? http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0908.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0907.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0906.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0915.jpg http://www.plgcollectibles.com/images/navy/HPIM0919.jpg

07-28-2005, 11:25 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	A sad shape for this old Sailor to be in...I bought one a year or so ago just about like it. All matching canon and all matching receiver, both different! Got it for a shooter. I particularly like the 6" barrel to shoot and the sights are nice. I think I paid $1200.00 at the time. It is an excellent shooter, one of my favorites. Tom, Shame! To consider parting out this old girl is sacreligous! It's partially parted already with the Erfurt sideplate and other mismatched parts but would still make a great pistol if it fires with the mismatched sideplate. Sometimes they won't. I won't shoot my collector Navy's. I might be a little nervous about the barrel being twisted, someone might have done some damage to the forks. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-10-2005, 11:01 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Just like the magazine exchange thread... what do you guys think of starting a thread where folks who one relatively rare guns like this one could post the various serial numbers of the parts so that other owners could see them. Just like the magazine thread, agreements could be made for an exchange of parts (even trade, even condition, or some bartering) as long as the parts owners are satisfied... I recall with much satisfaction a recent trade of this sort here on the Lugerforum that reunited an Artillery stock with it's rightful Luger... a VERY gracious jesture on the part of the matching stock... at no cost but the postage... whatyoufolksthink? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-10-2005, 05:26 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thanks Norm, I think that member's providing just a list of what non-matching parts one of your Lugers might have and the manufacturer (if known) and the serial number/proofs would be all that would be necessary... any prospective user would only have to use the forum's search function to find if there is a match to something needed... It isn't like we are going to creat a database or anything that complex. the stock matching thread is a good example. Someone looking for a matching stock only has to that forum and use search for a particular number to see if what they need is there... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-28-2005, 08:59 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Paul, looks nice, is it yours? BTW, I made the pictures much smaller and put them on this forum, it is much better to have them combined with the text and the photos, plus each picture was 2.5 megabytes apiece, folks on dial up would have died from old age before they could see half of them Ed

07-28-2005, 09:21 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	A lovely gun, EXCEPT the sideplate is wrong. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. The gun would wholesale (to a dealer) @ ~$1500; retail, about $1800. If it were my gun, I would part it out. Tom A.

07-29-2005, 09:13 AM	#6
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have the gun in my possession - 3 day inspection period is over today. Well, I paid 3K and will kindly ask for a refund if $1800 (ok $2000) is the Fair Mkt Value. Summary. The gun is authentic Navy. The gun has mismatched sideplate (Erfurt) and mismatching grips; non matching mag although authentic Navy. These are obvious and I was of course aware of this going in to the deal. The bore is fair to poor BTW. (Are there other mismatched parts?) Gosh though, these guns are so nice lookin... I surmise that in addition to the relative rarity of the Navy the proportions are just perfect and these 2 factors contribute to the overall desirability. Thanks all and the search is back ON

08-02-2005, 11:40 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Paul, I like this M1908 (8-10-05 correction : M1914) Navy...just not at the price. $ 1800-1900 would have been my price trigger. But I think a hunt for a proper Navy magazine and a "83" sideplate would not be unreasonable pursuits. I, personally, would not loose sleep over the mis-matched wooden grip plates. Just something that probably wore out during the life of a nearly 97 year old pistol...

08-02-2005, 04:42 PM	#8
grapppa User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hillsborough, NJ Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Pete for your opinion. To clarify however, what is not correct about the mag? It has a crown M and 1931 serial number - unfortunately, this you cannot discern from the pictures as I couldnt get it to be visible. OR is it that it is a navy mag but not correct for this era pistol?

08-02-2005, 04:49 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Paul, Sorry...I was not aware your mag had the C/M and that is was numbered. Given this...other than a matching mag...I do not think you could improve on yours more. I believe both smooth wood and/or concentric circled mag's are "correct" for a M1908 (8-10-05 corection : M1914) anchor luger...(Tom A. will correct me if I am wrong...).

08-02-2005, 05:48 PM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pete, You are right on. Tom A

08-10-2005, 02:20 AM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Golly, I've just sat here for the last hour straining my eyeballs while down loading the pictures and trying to make out the serial number on the magazine. It would hurt to see a number that I needed on this gun. I kept thinking, while I was looking that this gun, that it was a prize at one time and some yahoo had to mess it up. What a shame. Big Norm

08-10-2005, 03:25 PM	#13
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I think thats a great idea. Not that I have anything rare or ever will, but that I would get to study and drool over some mighty fine guns. Just warn us in advance as I will have to get a slobber protector for the keyboard.

08-10-2005, 05:18 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	John, I remember that artillery stock thingy. It made me feel good, even though I wasn't involved.But I have gotten the Don Hallock Luger magazine list for a long time and I have seen how involved that got. Geez! There is a lot of different Luger magazines out there. Especially the Nazi era. I think that Hallocks lists usually were 8 pages long. Many times I found the right serial number but the magazine was for the wrong era.In spite of all the efforts by this forum, many people don't know what the proper magazine should be for their Luger.The sellers sometimes don't know what they have. I know that once I move out of the WW1 era, I am a baby in the woods. Maybe, for testing purposes, a navy Luger magazine list could work because of their unique serial number marking and proof mark. Just a thought. Big Norm

08-10-2005, 06:15 PM	#16
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	John, lets see. I am thinking of a list and not individual posts. You would need a code for manufacture to distingush a DWM, Erfurt or unknown. The users member number would work to help sort. But then you would need something to tell us who that members number belongs to. Give a code for the many different parts and if they are original or repro.Something to tell if its a trade, sale or either.A code to tell the condition. Something to say that the part has been sold and a corresponding code to delete. Holy cow! I am getting a hang over head ache and I am only drinking water during this humid weather. Maybe I should look to see the artillery Luger stock exchange to see if there was a change since I last looked at it. I don't remember any search engine or delete post button that would go into EACH POST and look for specific serial numbers. But it has been a long time since I looked into that section of the artilleries. But John, you know more about current computers and what they can do than I do. If you have a thought on how to do it, then go for it. It most certainly would expand the already great usefullness of this forum. I think that it would take a lot of work and effort to maintain a computer program to do what you MIGHT be thinking of. But if you succeed...Jan Stills watch out! The Luger forums taking over. HI OH Silver away! Big Norm