What is L.A. 1. 23 ?

Tony S. · 04-26-2005, 01:21 PM

Thanks.
Tony S.
"SEMPER PARATUS"

Brent B. · 04-26-2005, 02:01 PM

I'm going to take an uneducated guess that it stands for
Landwehr Artillerie Co. 1, 23 pistol issued. I could be wrong and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable Luger experts will chip in shortly.

Brent B.

policeluger · 04-26-2005, 03:44 PM

Does it have a sear and/or mag safety , could this be a police Luger and would translate to Landjagerei Aurich division 1 weapon 23...hope this is of some help.

Don M · 04-26-2005, 04:52 PM

Where is the mark? If it's on the rear grip strap, it should be Imperial Army. If it's on the front, I'm puzzled. The LandjÃ?Â¤gerei did not mark their weapons with a number for any unit subordinate to the administrative district.

Tony S. · 04-26-2005, 05:48 PM

I am sorry, I should have been more specific. The gun is a Ortgies Pocket Automatic .32 ACP cal, probably around 1926. The mark is on the front grip strap. I was told that it could mean "Feld-Luftschiffe-Abeteilung Nr. 1" which means "Field Airship Unit No. 1 - gun no. 23". But, I am not sure plus I have no written reference to this information. In addition, I was told that "Unit Number One" included the Hindenburg amoung other Zeppelins and Airships.
Thanks for your help, Tony S.

Don M · 04-26-2005, 07:24 PM

Tony,
Is it possible that the mark is L.Al.23, where the character after the A is the lower-case letter "l" and there is no period between?

Tony S. · 04-26-2005, 09:03 PM

This is what it looks like!
Thanks, Tony S.

Don M · 04-26-2005, 09:31 PM

Well, so much for that idea!

Ron Smith · 04-26-2005, 10:44 PM

I think it's a police unit mark. LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Aurich , which was marked, not to regulation. with a precinct or department number. The reason being is that the pistols Serial# is stamped on the holster. This was a police , and not usually a Heers or military practice. A military pistol would most likely have the unit mark on the holster instead.

Ron

Don M · 04-27-2005, 11:19 AM

Ron,
You are probably right that it's a police mark but I seriously doubt that it's LandjÃ?Â¤gerei. I have an article coming out in the May Auto Mag in which I've analyzed about 150 LandjÃ?Â¤gerei marks and none of them have a number for the Inspectorate (the next level below the administrative district). The analysis also strongly suggests that the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei did not mark any of their weapons until about 1929. By that time, it appears that many of the Prussian police had abandoned the complex marking format specified in the 1922 marking orders in favor of a simpler system of indicating only the Regierungsbezirk. The data indicate that the small-caliber weapon of choice in the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei was the Mauser M1914, not the Ortgies. My article also lists three examples of LandjÃ?Â¤gerei P.08 holsters with the unit mark stamped on them, including one from Aurich.

Finally, all the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei unit marks I've examined consistently use 4-mm capital letters and 2-mm numerals. These numerals are much too large and the 23 is fancier than any I've seen.

I suspect that this is not a Prussian police mark and is one of those to be listed as "unidentified."

Tony S. · 04-27-2005, 04:25 PM

Thanks for helping and keeping the discussion interesting. I was told to check the Gun Collectors Digest volume 1, in the chart of unit marks, for similar markings and the explanation of its origins. I can not confirm since I do not have a copy of the book. Does anyone have copy of it and can confirm the allege origins?
Thanks, Tony S.

Ron Smith · 04-27-2005, 11:45 PM

Don, I don't disagree that police stamped unit markings on their holsters. However it is kind of unusual to find a military holster with the serial# stamped on it. And no other markings. It's not unheard of, but not common.

Ron

04-26-2005, 01:21 PM	#1
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is L.A. 1. 23 ? Thanks. Tony S. "SEMPER PARATUS"

04-26-2005, 04:52 PM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Where is the mark? If it's on the rear grip strap, it should be Imperial Army. If it's on the front, I'm puzzled. The LandjÃ?Â¤gerei did not mark their weapons with a number for any unit subordinate to the administrative district. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-26-2005, 07:24 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Tony, Is it possible that the mark is L.Al.23, where the character after the A is the lower-case letter "l" and there is no period between? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-26-2005, 09:31 PM	#8
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Well, so much for that idea! __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-26-2005, 10:44 PM	#9
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I think it's a police unit mark. LandjÃ?Â¤gerei Aurich , which was marked, not to regulation. with a precinct or department number. The reason being is that the pistols Serial# is stamped on the holster. This was a police , and not usually a Heers or military practice. A military pistol would most likely have the unit mark on the holster instead. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-26-2005, 02:01 PM	#2
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm going to take an uneducated guess that it stands for Landwehr Artillerie Co. 1, 23 pistol issued. I could be wrong and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable Luger experts will chip in shortly. Brent B.

04-26-2005, 03:44 PM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Does it have a sear and/or mag safety , could this be a police Luger and would translate to Landjagerei Aurich division 1 weapon 23...hope this is of some help.

04-26-2005, 05:48 PM	#5
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am sorry, I should have been more specific. The gun is a Ortgies Pocket Automatic .32 ACP cal, probably around 1926. The mark is on the front grip strap. I was told that it could mean "Feld-Luftschiffe-Abeteilung Nr. 1" which means "Field Airship Unit No. 1 - gun no. 23". But, I am not sure plus I have no written reference to this information. In addition, I was told that "Unit Number One" included the Hindenburg amoung other Zeppelins and Airships. Thanks for your help, Tony S.

04-26-2005, 09:03 PM	#7
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is what it looks like! Thanks, Tony S.

04-27-2005, 11:19 AM	#10
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Ron, You are probably right that it's a police mark but I seriously doubt that it's LandjÃ?Â¤gerei. I have an article coming out in the May Auto Mag in which I've analyzed about 150 LandjÃ?Â¤gerei marks and none of them have a number for the Inspectorate (the next level below the administrative district). The analysis also strongly suggests that the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei did not mark any of their weapons until about 1929. By that time, it appears that many of the Prussian police had abandoned the complex marking format specified in the 1922 marking orders in favor of a simpler system of indicating only the Regierungsbezirk. The data indicate that the small-caliber weapon of choice in the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei was the Mauser M1914, not the Ortgies. My article also lists three examples of LandjÃ?Â¤gerei P.08 holsters with the unit mark stamped on them, including one from Aurich. Finally, all the LandjÃ?Â¤gerei unit marks I've examined consistently use 4-mm capital letters and 2-mm numerals. These numerals are much too large and the 23 is fancier than any I've seen. I suspect that this is not a Prussian police mark and is one of those to be listed as "unidentified." __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-27-2005, 04:25 PM	#11
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for helping and keeping the discussion interesting. I was told to check the Gun Collectors Digest volume 1, in the chart of unit marks, for similar markings and the explanation of its origins. I can not confirm since I do not have a copy of the book. Does anyone have copy of it and can confirm the allege origins? Thanks, Tony S.

04-27-2005, 11:45 PM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Don, I don't disagree that police stamped unit markings on their holsters. However it is kind of unusual to find a military holster with the serial# stamped on it. And no other markings. It's not unheard of, but not common. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...