Death’s Head Luger

dtl70 · 05-21-2019, 06:39 PM

First post here...thanks for adding me!
Help from the gurus needed! I have the opportunity to purchase a 1918 Deaths Head Luger with what looks to be acceptance stamps where it was used in WW2. This gun is all matching including two numbers matching magazines and leather holster. I have inspected this first hand. Any input on authenticity and price range for this?

k98mike · 05-21-2019, 06:47 PM

According to more recent books, including the blue book of gun values, almost all are fakes. They are valued as normal Lugers. Beware.

Pistol · 05-21-2019, 07:50 PM

Can you provide pics of both sides?

dtl70 · 05-21-2019, 10:12 PM

These are all the pics I have at this time.

DonVoigt · 05-21-2019, 10:37 PM

It also has Post WWI commercial proofing from Suhl, an indication of re-working.

There May be some original DH lugers; but when buying one- I would assume it is a fake.
It is really near impossible to prove it original.

Ron Wood · 05-22-2019, 01:34 AM

The gun looks a lot better than some of the fakes I have seen, so who knows? Also, the holster is only the third one I have seen with the "lazy S" DH. It has the earmarks of being authentic, but it can't be proven one way or the other.
Ron

Patrick Sweeney · 05-23-2019, 03:22 PM

Good photos, though. Not artistic, but showing all the detail needed for assistance. Whoever took them, well done.

Norme · 05-23-2019, 04:16 PM

I am suspicious, from bitter experience, of any Imperial Luger with one matching magazine, let alone two. A closed 4 is incorrect on any P04 (Navy Luger) and I believe it may also be so on any Imperial P08.
Norm

DavidJayUden · 05-23-2019, 04:52 PM

Those 2 wood bottom magazines scare the bejezous out of me. No suffix, +, and of entirely different wood and finish although (supposedly ) issued together? Or are we to believe that the wood-bottomed magazines were issued with the gun at time of re-work?
dju

Pistol · 05-23-2019, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Those 2 wood bottom magazines scare the bejezous out of me. No suffix, +, and of entirely different wood and finish although (supposedly ) issued together? Or are we to believe that the wood-bottomed magazines were issued with the gun at time of re-work?
dju

I don't think those are the issued mags at least in original condition as issued. As you point out, the i suffix is missing. There is a police starburst(?) mark on one, but I don't see a #1 or #2.

wlyon · 05-23-2019, 06:29 PM

Now here is one to really avoid. I know nothing about DH lugers. I will never buy one. What makes a correct DH? The one the individual owns I guess. I put these right up with a Russian. Again what is a correct one? When in doubt avoid. Bill

k98mike · 05-23-2019, 07:56 PM

JUST MY THEROY; There probably were a small number of "Death's Head" lugers to begin with, possibly used by para-military after WW1, but like the German sniper badge of WW2, it has been faked so often and by so many it devalues all such items to the point of insignificance...A sad commentary on human greed.

gunnertwo · 05-23-2019, 09:44 PM

Questions-

Why would it be C/N proofed? It was military accepted and proofed by DWM in 1918.

I tend to agree with k98mike, used and marked by a post war paramilitary group. Freikorps or some other smaller group during the hectic times in Weimar Germany. Perhaps similar to the EWB markings.

G2

DonVoigt · 05-23-2019, 11:11 PM

It was re-proved after rework in post WWI germany, the proof markings are from Suhl.
It was re-proved because it was re-worked.

dtl70 · 05-24-2019, 12:44 AM

Photo cred goes to me!

gunnertwo · 05-24-2019, 01:03 AM

Thanks Don.

G2

Vlim · 05-24-2019, 09:16 AM

A reproof would only be needed if any critical component was replaced: barrel, receiver or breech block.

HerrKaiser · 05-24-2019, 10:14 AM

It may have started as an artillery and needed re-barreled for Versailles, but I can’t see the artillery sight notch if it was.

DonVoigt · 05-24-2019, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

It may have started as an artillery and needed re-barreled for Versailles, but I can’t see the artillery sight notch if it was.

See the first picture, no artillery cut.

DonVoigt · 05-24-2019, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

A reproof would only be needed if any critical component was replaced: barrel, receiver or breech block.

I believe the pistol was re-proof fired at least twice.
The C/N of Suhl is over a Weimar era firing proof on the left chamber.

The barrel was replaced at some point, as it is a Simson barrel.

Who knows what else could have been replaced when it received the Suhl re-proof.

05-21-2019, 10:37 PM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	It also has Post WWI commercial proofing from Suhl, an indication of re-working. There May be some original DH lugers; but when buying one- I would assume it is a fake. It is really near impossible to prove it original. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-22-2019, 01:34 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The gun looks a lot better than some of the fakes I have seen, so who knows? Also, the holster is only the third one I have seen with the "lazy S" DH. It has the earmarks of being authentic, but it can't be proven one way or the other. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-23-2019, 06:29 PM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Now here is one to really avoid. I know nothing about DH lugers. I will never buy one. What makes a correct DH? The one the individual owns I guess. I put these right up with a Russian. Again what is a correct one? When in doubt avoid. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-23-2019, 11:11 PM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	It was re-proved after rework in post WWI germany, the proof markings are from Suhl. It was re-proved because it was re-worked. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-24-2019, 10:14 AM	#18
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	It may have started as an artillery and needed re-barreled for Versailles, but I can’t see the artillery sight notch if it was. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

05-21-2019, 06:39 PM	#1
dtl70 New User Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Death’s Head Luger First post here...thanks for adding me! Help from the gurus needed! I have the opportunity to purchase a 1918 Deaths Head Luger with what looks to be acceptance stamps where it was used in WW2. This gun is all matching including two numbers matching magazines and leather holster. I have inspected this first hand. Any input on authenticity and price range for this? Attached Thumbnails

05-21-2019, 06:47 PM	#2
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	According to more recent books, including the blue book of gun values, almost all are fakes. They are valued as normal Lugers. Beware.

05-21-2019, 07:50 PM	#3
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Can you provide pics of both sides?

05-21-2019, 10:12 PM	#4
dtl70 New User Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	These are all the pics I have at this time.

05-23-2019, 03:22 PM	#7
Patrick Sweeney User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 63 Thanks: 0 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Good photos, though. Not artistic, but showing all the detail needed for assistance. Whoever took them, well done.

05-23-2019, 04:16 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	I am suspicious, from bitter experience, of any Imperial Luger with one matching magazine, let alone two. A closed 4 is incorrect on any P04 (Navy Luger) and I believe it may also be so on any Imperial P08. Norm

05-23-2019, 04:52 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Those 2 wood bottom magazines scare the bejezous out of me. No suffix, +, and of entirely different wood and finish although (supposedly ) issued together? Or are we to believe that the wood-bottomed magazines were issued with the gun at time of re-work? dju

05-23-2019, 07:56 PM	#12
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	JUST MY THEROY; There probably were a small number of "Death's Head" lugers to begin with, possibly used by para-military after WW1, but like the German sniper badge of WW2, it has been faked so often and by so many it devalues all such items to the point of insignificance...A sad commentary on human greed.

05-23-2019, 09:44 PM	#13
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 605 Thanks: 803 Thanked 909 Times in 351 Posts	Questions- Why would it be C/N proofed? It was military accepted and proofed by DWM in 1918. I tend to agree with k98mike, used and marked by a post war paramilitary group. Freikorps or some other smaller group during the hectic times in Weimar Germany. Perhaps similar to the EWB markings. G2

05-24-2019, 12:44 AM	#15
dtl70 New User Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Photo cred goes to me!

05-24-2019, 01:03 AM	#16
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 605 Thanks: 803 Thanked 909 Times in 351 Posts	Thanks Don. G2

05-24-2019, 09:16 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	A reproof would only be needed if any critical component was replaced: barrel, receiver or breech block.