Luger with no proof marks

poihths · 02-22-2020, 12:11 PM

My apologies if there's a sticky or other coverage of this question and I've missed it.

I'm interested in a 1918 DWM military Luger that has no proof or acceptance marks. The rest of the gun seems to be OK; disclosure about condition, markings, numbers, etc. seems to be complete.

The gun is priced in the $2000-$2500 range.

My primary interest is not necessarily to have an absolutely perfect, totally matching Luger; my interest is mostly in having a nice one that will serve as a good companion piece to a 1917-1918 era military Colt 1911 that I own. I like the idea of the pairing. Like the 1911, the Luger will be fired occasionally.

Should I be concerned about the lack of proof marks? Is there anything suspicious about that?

hayhugh · 02-22-2020, 12:54 PM

Pictures please. sounds like you are paying a lot more then it should cost for what you want it for...

poihths · 02-22-2020, 01:43 PM

If you don’t mind, I would like to restrict this discussion to the question of whether or not the absence of proof/acceptance marks is a matter of concern that would alarm a more knowledgable collector than I. If that’s a serious issue related, let’s say, to the authenticity of the gun, then price becomes quite irrelevant to me—I skip this gun and keep shopping.

Still, your request for more info is perfectly reasonable. Here’s the URL. with any luck, nobody will swoop in and buy it before I make up my mind. this page contains everything I know about the gun.

URL: https://simpsonltd.com/dwm-1918-military-8/

Mac Cat · 02-22-2020, 03:12 PM

Simpson LTD is a very respectable Luger specialist and importer.
They usually post really good detailed photos.

Their prices run about 20-30% higher than most, but they are well respected.
The gun you pointed to appears to be a military issue and I'm wondering if the acceptance stamps were buffed off.
That would be a clue that it was re-blued, too.

It's too much for a shooter, even a Luger shooter.

mrerick · 02-22-2020, 03:33 PM

Yes. The absence of acceptance and proof marks would be considered abnormal.

Military contract Lugers had acceptance marks before being acquired and used by the German military.

Yes. If it's being represented as a collectible 1918 Military contract Luger that is an issue for most buyers. The acceptance marks meant that government inspectors located at the factory had inspected and approved the firearm for acquisition under the contract.

There could be any number of reasons for what you are looking at. Everything would be speculation without factual proof

We publish a FAQ document that you probably will find useful. It's free. Just follow the FAQ link on the top of every forum page.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-22-2020, 06:26 PM

Yes, It's a serious abnormality. The grips don't look right to me either. $2,500 is also insane. Don't worry about any swooping going on. If I saw this at a gun show I would expect to see a price of one half what Simpson is dreaming of..

Edward Tinker · 02-23-2020, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poihths

If you don’t mind, I would like to restrict this discussion to the question of whether or not the absence of proof/acceptance marks is a matter of concern that would alarm a more knowledgable collector than I.

Buy several Luger books, read all the stickies, read the FAQ, any war time should have acceptance and final proof, not to have it would be an unissued 1918 upper, but the ones I’ve seen usually have at least one acceptance marking.

Vlim · 02-23-2020, 06:15 AM

Lets say this type of gun is not recommended for beginning collectors.

poihths · 02-23-2020, 08:03 AM

Thanks to all for the good advice!

gunbugs · 02-24-2020, 12:14 AM

If you look closely at the "7" in the serial numbers, it appears the lower and sideplate are struck with the same stamp. The upper and barrel appear to be numbered with a different "7". The sideplate and lower have a thicker bottom leg on the "7". I think this gun was "built up" a long time ago. Also, the alignment on the serial number on the upper is pretty sloppy, even for a wartime DWM.

abukafura · 02-25-2020, 08:13 PM

In the past I have had some 1918 dated DWM Lugers that had no proof marks. There was a discussion of such unproved pistols on one of the Forums. The consensus at the time was that the pistols were ok, most likely very late war pistols when things were not going well and the proofing was missed or ignored altogether.

Pistol · 02-25-2020, 10:11 PM

There are many 1917 and 1918 out there to choose from with proper proof and acceptance marks and, at lower more reasonable price. Why take the risk on this atypical gun that could actually be a shooter worth $800-$900?

And if it is indeed a legit late 1918 with missed proofs, then great you have an unusual pistol and special odd niche..........but could you later sell for $2200 to 2500? It would take the right buyer with that type of interest. I would rather have a nice typical 1918 rig for $1300-1800

02-22-2020, 12:11 PM	#1
poihths New User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger with no proof marks My apologies if there's a sticky or other coverage of this question and I've missed it. I'm interested in a 1918 DWM military Luger that has no proof or acceptance marks. The rest of the gun seems to be OK; disclosure about condition, markings, numbers, etc. seems to be complete. The gun is priced in the $2000-$2500 range. My primary interest is not necessarily to have an absolutely perfect, totally matching Luger; my interest is mostly in having a nice one that will serve as a good companion piece to a 1917-1918 era military Colt 1911 that I own. I like the idea of the pairing. Like the 1911, the Luger will be fired occasionally. Should I be concerned about the lack of proof marks? Is there anything suspicious about that?

02-22-2020, 03:33 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Yes. The absence of acceptance and proof marks would be considered abnormal. Military contract Lugers had acceptance marks before being acquired and used by the German military. Yes. If it's being represented as a collectible 1918 Military contract Luger that is an issue for most buyers. The acceptance marks meant that government inspectors located at the factory had inspected and approved the firearm for acquisition under the contract. There could be any number of reasons for what you are looking at. Everything would be speculation without factual proof We publish a FAQ document that you probably will find useful. It's free. Just follow the FAQ link on the top of every forum page. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-22-2020, 06:26 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Yes, It's a serious abnormality. The grips don't look right to me either. $2,500 is also insane. Don't worry about any swooping going on. If I saw this at a gun show I would expect to see a price of one half what Simpson is dreaming of.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-22-2020, 12:54 PM	#2
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 882 Thanks: 848 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	Pictures please. sounds like you are paying a lot more then it should cost for what you want it for...

02-22-2020, 01:43 PM	#3
poihths New User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you don’t mind, I would like to restrict this discussion to the question of whether or not the absence of proof/acceptance marks is a matter of concern that would alarm a more knowledgable collector than I. If that’s a serious issue related, let’s say, to the authenticity of the gun, then price becomes quite irrelevant to me—I skip this gun and keep shopping. Still, your request for more info is perfectly reasonable. Here’s the URL. with any luck, nobody will swoop in and buy it before I make up my mind. this page contains everything I know about the gun. URL: https://simpsonltd.com/dwm-1918-military-8/

02-22-2020, 03:12 PM	#4
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	Simpson LTD is a very respectable Luger specialist and importer. They usually post really good detailed photos. Their prices run about 20-30% higher than most, but they are well respected. The gun you pointed to appears to be a military issue and I'm wondering if the acceptance stamps were buffed off. That would be a clue that it was re-blued, too. It's too much for a shooter, even a Luger shooter.

02-23-2020, 06:15 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Lets say this type of gun is not recommended for beginning collectors.

02-23-2020, 08:03 AM	#9
poihths New User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to all for the good advice!

02-24-2020, 12:14 AM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	If you look closely at the "7" in the serial numbers, it appears the lower and sideplate are struck with the same stamp. The upper and barrel appear to be numbered with a different "7". The sideplate and lower have a thicker bottom leg on the "7". I think this gun was "built up" a long time ago. Also, the alignment on the serial number on the upper is pretty sloppy, even for a wartime DWM.

02-25-2020, 08:13 PM	#11
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 89 Times in 57 Posts	In the past I have had some 1918 dated DWM Lugers that had no proof marks. There was a discussion of such unproved pistols on one of the Forums. The consensus at the time was that the pistols were ok, most likely very late war pistols when things were not going well and the proofing was missed or ignored altogether.

02-25-2020, 10:11 PM	#12
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	There are many 1917 and 1918 out there to choose from with proper proof and acceptance marks and, at lower more reasonable price. Why take the risk on this atypical gun that could actually be a shooter worth $800-$900? And if it is indeed a legit late 1918 with missed proofs, then great you have an unusual pistol and special odd niche..........but could you later sell for $2200 to 2500? It would take the right buyer with that type of interest. I would rather have a nice typical 1918 rig for $1300-1800