Russian Luger?????

Marvin · 02-06-2002, 09:44 AM

I was just looking at the Collectors Firearms site and I saw a commercial Luger with "CCCP" stamped on the chamber. It is probably a reworked Luger with some enterprising person adding a little to it. What are your thoughts on this pistol?

Marvin

Luger With CCCP stamp

tom · 02-06-2002, 10:20 AM

An interesting curiosity that some schmuck will inevitably pay a chunk of change to won...what were PT Barnum's words? There's a sucker born.....

Tom

Marvin · 02-06-2002, 10:36 AM

Tom,

I thougth the same thing about the pistol myself. It appears to be a nice shooter for a high price. I bet this one stays on their list for a while.

Marvin

02-06-2002, 11:20 AM

Don't be too quick to dismiss it as a fake. In Sam Costanzo's book, World of Lugers, he shows this mark- C.C.C.P. and says the following about it "U.S.S.R., Union of Soviet Socialist Republic, proof found on the chambers of captured or reworked Lugers for military or police use. Captured German weapons were reissued to Russian Stalingrad military forces. This proof was used 1941 through 1947." Locations noted: chamber and left receiver. This might be one of them.

Marvin · 02-06-2002, 11:26 AM

Cachehunter,

Thanks for the information! I would certainly have believed this to be just another reworked Luger. Did Constanza have any photos of the pistol with these stamps?

Marvin

Herb · 02-06-2002, 11:32 AM

No photo, just the explanation of the marks, there are many hundreds of different marks in his book. It would be two feet thick if he posted the pictures. Supposedly he had actually seen all of these marks, a lot of them at Ralph Shattuks house.

Ron Wood · 02-06-2002, 12:22 PM

Before I went to look at the pictures, I wondered to myself if, in addition to the CCCP on the chamber, it would have the "star" proof. Sure enough, it does. So it might actually be authentic (or properly faked)

Herb · 02-06-2002, 12:33 PM

The thing that bothers me about it is at the top of the page where the pictures are it says "not original", That is a tip off that something is not right about it. That star on the right reciever is just one of several stars found on Lugers, one is the early Krieghoff 'P' code commercial most others are elsewhere. The CCC P doesn't look right either, has that little space in there and there are no periods . after the letters as shown in the book. I would be cautious about this one. Might mail the guy and ask some questions if you are considering it.

Orv Reichert · 02-06-2002, 02:44 PM

In 30 years, ONE P.38 showed up with CCCP stamped by hand on the slide...a really UGLY gun. [I have photos somewhere?]

It is my belief that some enterprising soul had some letter stamps and extra time on his hands!

Watch youself...it's a jungle out there!

Orv Reichert

tom · 02-06-2002, 03:22 PM

Isn't it odd that of the thousands of Soviet captured Lugers that have shown up dip blued, electro penciled, etc that NONE to my knowledge had the CCCP add-on?

I suspect that the reason is that the pistols with CCCP markings were done either to enhance resale value or as the result of some overzealous commissar somewhere. In either case, it just screws up what might have been a nice pistol.

Interesting but not a production item or authorized add-on, IMHO.

Tom

02-06-2002, 06:55 PM

I guarantee you that there will be more show up after today.

RGG/Roadkill

Jesse · 02-07-2002, 01:58 AM

I found a CCCP marked Luger at a local fest about two or three years ago, the old guy wanted $300 for it so I came home and asked Ted about it and decided to go back and get it and it was sold. I found it listed in a Luger price guide for big $$$$$. I still wish I had bought it, I would at lest had a very nice shooter if it was a fake.

Ahhh another one that got away.... sigh,

Jesse

02-06-2002, 09:44 AM	#1
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Russian Luger????? I was just looking at the Collectors Firearms site and I saw a commercial Luger with "CCCP" stamped on the chamber. It is probably a reworked Luger with some enterprising person adding a little to it. What are your thoughts on this pistol? Marvin Luger With CCCP stamp

02-06-2002, 10:20 AM	#2
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Russian Luger????? An interesting curiosity that some schmuck will inevitably pay a chunk of change to won...what were PT Barnum's words? There's a sucker born..... Tom

02-06-2002, 10:36 AM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Russian Luger????? Tom, I thougth the same thing about the pistol myself. It appears to be a nice shooter for a high price. I bet this one stays on their list for a while. Marvin

02-06-2002, 11:20 AM	#4
Cachehunter Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Russian Luger????? Don't be too quick to dismiss it as a fake. In Sam Costanzo's book, World of Lugers, he shows this mark- C.C.C.P. and says the following about it "U.S.S.R., Union of Soviet Socialist Republic, proof found on the chambers of captured or reworked Lugers for military or police use. Captured German weapons were reissued to Russian Stalingrad military forces. This proof was used 1941 through 1947." Locations noted: chamber and left receiver. This might be one of them.

02-06-2002, 11:26 AM	#5
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Russian Luger????? Cachehunter, Thanks for the information! I would certainly have believed this to be just another reworked Luger. Did Constanza have any photos of the pistol with these stamps? Marvin

02-06-2002, 11:32 AM	#6
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Russian Luger????? No photo, just the explanation of the marks, there are many hundreds of different marks in his book. It would be two feet thick if he posted the pictures. Supposedly he had actually seen all of these marks, a lot of them at Ralph Shattuks house.

02-06-2002, 12:22 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	Re: Russian Luger????? Before I went to look at the pictures, I wondered to myself if, in addition to the CCCP on the chamber, it would have the "star" proof. Sure enough, it does. So it might actually be authentic (or properly faked)

02-06-2002, 12:33 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Russian Luger????? The thing that bothers me about it is at the top of the page where the pictures are it says "not original", That is a tip off that something is not right about it. That star on the right reciever is just one of several stars found on Lugers, one is the early Krieghoff 'P' code commercial most others are elsewhere. The CCC P doesn't look right either, has that little space in there and there are no periods . after the letters as shown in the book. I would be cautious about this one. Might mail the guy and ask some questions if you are considering it.

02-06-2002, 02:44 PM	#9
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Russian In 30 years, ONE P.38 showed up with CCCP stamped by hand on the slide...a really UGLY gun. [I have photos somewhere?] It is my belief that some enterprising soul had some letter stamps and extra time on his hands! Watch youself...it's a jungle out there! Orv Reichert

02-06-2002, 03:22 PM	#10
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Russian Isn't it odd that of the thousands of Soviet captured Lugers that have shown up dip blued, electro penciled, etc that NONE to my knowledge had the CCCP add-on? I suspect that the reason is that the pistols with CCCP markings were done either to enhance resale value or as the result of some overzealous commissar somewhere. In either case, it just screws up what might have been a nice pistol. Interesting but not a production item or authorized add-on, IMHO. Tom

02-06-2002, 06:55 PM	#11
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Russian I guarantee you that there will be more show up after today. RGG/Roadkill

02-07-2002, 01:58 AM	#12
Jesse User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW VA Posts: 103 Thanks: 6 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Russian I found a CCCP marked Luger at a local fest about two or three years ago, the old guy wanted $300 for it so I came home and asked Ted about it and decided to go back and get it and it was sold. I found it listed in a Luger price guide for big $$$$$. I still wish I had bought it, I would at lest had a very nice shooter if it was a fake. Ahhh another one that got away.... sigh, Jesse