1906 -Is this real or 'enhanced'

siegersallee · 05-18-2016, 11:52 AM

Hi all,

I had taken a hiatus from collecting for about a year and am now getting back into it. I have developed an interest in some of the earlier lugers.

So now my question. I found this on GB and would like to get opinions on it: 1906 .
I am concerned that it is re-blued or in some way 'enhanced'.

What makes me think it is possibly re-blued is:
1) the very shallow C/B on the left side.
2) the pits seem to show blue.
3) some of the parts have so little, if any wear.
4) some of the parts do show wear, so the wear on the pistol does not seem even.

I don't think the lanyard is original; but that does not bother me.

If you guys think it is genuine, I plan to bid on it. Please don't get into a bidding war with me

thanks,
Richard

DavidJayUden · 05-18-2016, 12:43 PM

I share your concerns. A very nice looking gun but a tough call on the points you made. Also no halos, etc. And is that a crack on the frame, just ahead of the right grip panel, top point?
$95 shipping and no 3 day inspection? Ouch.
dju

John Sabato · 05-18-2016, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siegersallee

If you guys think it is genuine, ...

Richard, it is a GENUINE Luger... and it is just my opinion, (and apparently the opinion of DJU) but I have the same concerns you have about it being re-blued, for the same reasons.

alanint · 05-18-2016, 01:23 PM

The fuzziness of the proofs and match numbers make me nervous.

DavidJayUden · 05-18-2016, 02:13 PM

Is anyone else concerned about that line radiating forward from the right grip upper point, or is it just my imagination?

Ron Wood · 05-18-2016, 02:17 PM

At the risk of disagreeing with the above reviews, I think the gun is good and in very nice condition. The barrel proofs are absolutely authentic showing well defined proper halos. The frame ears and grip straps do exhibit "freckling" but I do not believe there is evidence of it being reblued, just some pitting due to improper care/storage.
The only problem that I see that you might encounter is if the reserve is set unrealistically high.
Ron

Dwight Gruber · 05-18-2016, 02:29 PM

About as nice an authentically finished 9mm New Model Parabellum as you are likely to find.

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 05-18-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Is anyone else concerned about that line radiating forward from the right grip upper point, or is it just my imagination?

Looks like a crack to me.

siegersallee · 05-18-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Richard, it is a GENUINE Luger... and it is just my opinion

Oh, come-on John...I know you are being funny. I know it is a real luger.

I guess, what I should have said was is this an 'enhanced' luger or an 'honest' one.

siegersallee · 05-18-2016, 03:40 PM

Is this the picture you are saying looks like a crack?

The downward sloping jagged line from the grip?

Click image for larger version

Name: pix675497858.jpg
Views: 39
Size: 106.9 KB
ID: 59092

siegersallee · 05-18-2016, 03:45 PM

One of the things that concerned me was this stamp.
I thought it looked way to shallow.

Is this normal for an 'honest' DWM luger from 1906?
I would have expected the stamp to be deeper since they were in a commercial market and under little pressure to turn them out fast -as in WWI.

Click image for larger version

Name: Bstamp.jpg
Views: 28
Size: 100.4 KB
ID: 59094

siegersallee · 05-18-2016, 03:47 PM

Don' get me wrong...I do like the thing; I just don't want to waste my time, or money, if it is doctored.

I was thinking of putting in a bid and "c'est la vie".

Don M · 05-18-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Is anyone else concerned about that line radiating forward from the right grip upper point, or is it just my imagination?

I think it is just the corner created at the intersection of the flat surface below with the curved surface above. My Lugers have it.

rhuff · 05-18-2016, 03:49 PM

In my opinion this finish has been freshened, perhaps not a total reblue....maybe a cold blue touch-up. When I look at the rear of the frame where the rear toggle strikes the frame when shot, this looks "freshened" to me. Other areas are also bothersome to me....finish wise.

John Sabato · 05-18-2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Looks like a crack to me.

I think it is just a piece of thread or lint that snagged on the grip and is soaked with gun oil... seems an unlikely place for a frame crack. No firing stress in that area.

Apparently our group can't come to a consensus on the finish without better photos or handling the firearm in person. All those who have spoken up are pretty well versed in determining whether a gun is refinished... yet we are split on the originality of the finish. Can we get better photos?

ithacaartist · 05-18-2016, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Looks like a crack to me.

Me, too.

DonVoigt · 05-18-2016, 04:27 PM

Maybe John and Don M. are correct, and it is a "ledge"; it does "look" like a crack- a quick look in person would settle that.

Good question to ask the seller, just to establish a reference!

DavidJayUden · 05-18-2016, 04:30 PM

You know, that's what keeps this group interesting. Diverse opinions on the same photos and all expressed without malice. Wish facebook were so civil...
dju

kurusu · 05-18-2016, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Me, too.

It also looks like a crack to me.

But also agree that it's in an odd place.

CJS57 · 05-19-2016, 10:23 AM

I agree with Ron Wood, it is a correct and original finish Luger. Only a hands on inspection will be the last word however. It looks like a crack but is 99.9% not a crack. It is a machining ledge that all of that era Lugers have. If you have a reference collection you can check yours and see they all have that ledge. The proof mark is also ok and fine. That proof was struck before the rust blue and that one is within the range of normal appearance and depth. The barrel serial and proofs were struck after the blue was on and those too have the right look and halos. Nice original gun. Good luck!

05-18-2016, 11:52 AM	#1
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 100 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	1906 -Is this real or 'enhanced' Hi all, I had taken a hiatus from collecting for about a year and am now getting back into it. I have developed an interest in some of the earlier lugers. So now my question. I found this on GB and would like to get opinions on it: 1906 . I am concerned that it is re-blued or in some way 'enhanced'. What makes me think it is possibly re-blued is: 1) the very shallow C/B on the left side. 2) the pits seem to show blue. 3) some of the parts have so little, if any wear. 4) some of the parts do show wear, so the wear on the pistol does not seem even. I don't think the lanyard is original; but that does not bother me. If you guys think it is genuine, I plan to bid on it. Please don't get into a bidding war with me thanks, Richard __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

05-18-2016, 02:17 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	At the risk of disagreeing with the above reviews, I think the gun is good and in very nice condition. The barrel proofs are absolutely authentic showing well defined proper halos. The frame ears and grip straps do exhibit "freckling" but I do not believe there is evidence of it being reblued, just some pitting due to improper care/storage. The only problem that I see that you might encounter is if the reserve is set unrealistically high. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-18-2016, 03:40 PM	#10
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 100 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Is this the picture you are saying looks like a crack? The downward sloping jagged line from the grip? __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

05-18-2016, 03:45 PM	#11
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 100 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	One of the things that concerned me was this stamp. I thought it looked way to shallow. Is this normal for an 'honest' DWM luger from 1906? I would have expected the stamp to be deeper since they were in a commercial market and under little pressure to turn them out fast -as in WWI. __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

05-18-2016, 03:47 PM	#12
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 100 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Don' get me wrong...I do like the thing; I just don't want to waste my time, or money, if it is doctored. I was thinking of putting in a bid and "c'est la vie". __________________ "Für Gott, Kaiser, und Vaterland" -seeking: Erfrut Mag 1229 (no script)

05-18-2016, 12:43 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I share your concerns. A very nice looking gun but a tough call on the points you made. Also no halos, etc. And is that a crack on the frame, just ahead of the right grip panel, top point? $95 shipping and no 3 day inspection? Ouch. dju

05-18-2016, 01:23 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The fuzziness of the proofs and match numbers make me nervous.

05-18-2016, 02:13 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Is anyone else concerned about that line radiating forward from the right grip upper point, or is it just my imagination?

05-18-2016, 02:29 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	About as nice an authentically finished 9mm New Model Parabellum as you are likely to find. --Dwight

05-18-2016, 03:49 PM	#14
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	In my opinion this finish has been freshened, perhaps not a total reblue....maybe a cold blue touch-up. When I look at the rear of the frame where the rear toggle strikes the frame when shot, this looks "freshened" to me. Other areas are also bothersome to me....finish wise.

05-18-2016, 04:27 PM	#17
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Maybe John and Don M. are correct, and it is a "ledge"; it does "look" like a crack- a quick look in person would settle that. Good question to ask the seller, just to establish a reference! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-18-2016, 04:30 PM	#18
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You know, that's what keeps this group interesting. Diverse opinions on the same photos and all expressed without malice. Wish facebook were so civil... dju

05-19-2016, 10:23 AM	#20
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	I agree with Ron Wood, it is a correct and original finish Luger. Only a hands on inspection will be the last word however. It looks like a crack but is 99.9% not a crack. It is a machining ledge that all of that era Lugers have. If you have a reference collection you can check yours and see they all have that ledge. The proof mark is also ok and fine. That proof was struck before the rust blue and that one is within the range of normal appearance and depth. The barrel serial and proofs were struck after the blue was on and those too have the right look and halos. Nice original gun. Good luck!