DWM Luger from Turkey

evrenay · 07-06-2011, 02:39 PM

I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic.
I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop.

The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it.

I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together.

Here are the photos:

I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so.

All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring.
As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly.
He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not.
If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her.

Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight.

The straw color is still on the parts.

According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself.

Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself.

I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly.

Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling.

I hope you can recognize the stamps on the barrel. I tried to take photos with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they

I recommend to the ones who are interested, to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program.

Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them.

And they are not re-checkered

I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic.
I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop.

The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it.

I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together.

Here are the photos:

I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so.

All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring.
As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly.
He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not.
If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her.

Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight.

The straw color is still on the parts.

According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself.

Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself.

I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly.

Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling.

I hope you can recognize the staps on the barrel. I tried with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they

I recommend to the ones who are interested to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program.

Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them.

And they are not re-checkered

I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic.
I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop.

The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it.

I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together.

Here are the photos:

I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so.

All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring.
As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly.
He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not.
If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her.

Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight.

The straw color is still on the parts.

According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself.

Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself.

I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly.

Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling.

I hope you can recognize the staps on the barrel. I tried with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they

I recommend to the ones who are interested to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program.

Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them.

And they are not re-checkered

Interestingly (of course it is interesting for me, may be it is usual) there are no "GESICHERT" writing on the frame.

Grip screws

Last but not least, the present owner became also some original ammunition from the old ladies among the Luger.

I hope, you can recognize the D.W.M. stamping on the cartridge.

Also very interesting cone on this DWM cartridge

lugerholsterrepair · 07-06-2011, 03:58 PM

Evren..Did this pistol come with a magazine and what is written on the extractor?

LugerVern · 07-06-2011, 07:40 PM

Evrenay

I think you have a very nice early 9mm commercial "06" Luger.

They started to make them around serial number 27,000

"BUG" is a barrel proof common to early DWM guns as is the "Shield" inspector mark, this later appears inside frame wells.

The 11835 is the bore diameter for a 9 MM

Your gun appears original but I would not rule out some use of touch up bluing a long time ago.

Your barrel got pitted from the use of ammunition that used corrosive primers and was later thoroughly cleaned .

A very nice example of about 3500 guns total made. Much fewer remain today and all command high prices in the condition of your gun.

As always, other members may have different opinions.

Nice gun!
Thanks for posting, such great pictures!

Vern

evrenay · 07-07-2011, 12:30 AM

Dear Jerry,

I didn't see the original magazine. He thought the pistol doesn't fire properly with the original so he bought a VoPo magazine from the US.
I asked for the original to take photos but it was at his home which was close to his business, however we were running out of time so I couldn't wait for him to bring the original magazine.

Nevertheless, I know that it is chrome plated with wooden bottom and on the bottom it has the lettering "9 mm". At least the owner told me so.

Dear Vern,

in order to give some information to the owner of this pistol, what would you estimate it's price in international market. Just because we are curious about it.
As we can not export guns from Turkey (if there is a way to export, I don't know it) this country has it's own market price.

LugerVern · 07-07-2011, 03:58 PM

Evrenay

A "Cal 9MM" marked magazine will add considerably to the value of the gun. even in bad condition it is worth quite a lot of money, do not discard it as not usable.

I have know way of knowing market values in Turkey for collectable Lugers.

I guess you could do some comparisons using like guns in Turkey and other countries and then ratio the numbers.
Other members may be better able to help you on questions of value and exporting.

Vern

alanint · 07-07-2011, 04:44 PM

Does anybody else feel the "BUG" proofs on the barrel are rather thin and buffed? I think that most of the pistol is unmessed with but feel the barrel may have been at the least buffed and perhaps cold blued, (as at least one other member mentioned). The barrel is also shinier than the balance of the pistol's finish.

Ron Wood · 07-07-2011, 04:59 PM

In my opinion, the gun is OK. The BUG proofs on some barrels are thin. For example, on 1902 Fat Barrel Lugers this is frequently encountered on 100% original guns. On this gun, the barrel numbers having "upset" borders and no halos is, in my opinion, legitimate for an early Luger. I have only seen the barred shield barrel inspector's mark on early commercial guns, 1900, 1902, 1906 and 1908. I have no documentation on this, but I surmise that it is the mark of a DWM inspector that approved a repaired/replaced barrel on a production piece and guns bearing this mark are factory original.

In the USA, most Model 1906 9mm Lugers are American Eagles, so a standard Commercial model is uncommon here. To a collector wanting to have representative examples of early commercial Lugers, I would think that a range of $3500-$4000 is not out of the question for an example in this condition (with the 9mm script magazine

).

P.S. I wish I had a box full of those DWM 480C truncated cone cartridges!

evrenay · 07-07-2011, 05:38 PM

Dear Vern,

I wasn't asking for a price value in Turkey, I was definitely asking for a price in International (means Europa and the US) markets. Ron gave me the answer I needed.

I don't think that the owner is really interested in exporting his gun. I am/were particularly interested in exporting because I own an original matching numbers (slide and frame) 1944 made Colt 1911 .38 Super with G.H.D. inspector stamp and "Ordnance Wheel" on the frame. This is one of 400 made for the O.S.S. and left by them in Istanbul.

Anyway, I also own a (wooden bottom, nickel) magazine with 9mm inscription at the bottom and it functions well with my own 1915 Artillery Luger. Sometime, I will post photos of my little Luger-magazine collection along with my Artillery.

I have some bad news; I can not find the DWM cartridge which I became as a gift. On the same day we met with the owner of this Luger, we went to a shooting competition and I had other 9x19 cartridges in my pocket. I hope it comes out from somewhere, otherwise I would be really embarrassing for me to have shot a 100 years old bullet in a competition, which I couldn't even win!

MFC · 07-09-2011, 02:08 AM

Evren,
It is not advisable to use any original wood bottom mag for shooting. The old wood can become very brittle. The shock of recoil can crack the bottom.

rivieraranch · 07-10-2011, 01:32 PM

. . .and just in time for Thanksgiving!

evrenay · 07-11-2011, 04:51 AM

Dear MFC,
thank you very much for your advice. As most of the Luger we have here in Turkey are made between 1900 and 1920 I wouldn't shoot with them much.

Actually, I like the to shoot with, if I am going to shoot, Haenel Schmeisser magazines (gefraest mit treppenfeder) more than the older ones (gestanzt mit spiralfeder).

07-06-2011, 02:39 PM	#1
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	DWM Luger from Turkey I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic. I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop. The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it. I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together. Here are the photos: I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so. All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring. As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly. He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not. If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her. Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight. The straw color is still on the parts. According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself. Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself. I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly. Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling. I hope you can recognize the stamps on the barrel. I tried to take photos with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they I recommend to the ones who are interested, to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program. Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them. And they are not re-checkered I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic. I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop. The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it. I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together. Here are the photos: I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so. All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring. As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly. He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not. If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her. Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight. The straw color is still on the parts. According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself. Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself. I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly. Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling. I hope you can recognize the staps on the barrel. I tried with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they I recommend to the ones who are interested to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program. Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them. And they are not re-checkered I hope, this time I have classified this Luger to the right topic. I found her in Gemlik/Bursa-Turkey at an olive and olive oil shop. The guy who bought it from to old ladies told me that it belonged to a doctor long time ago. By the way present owner is also 65 years old and he is not particularly interested in Lugers. However the beautiful condition of the pistol impressed him, so he bought it. I was surprised by the number of the stamps under the barrel. I have never seen so many stamps together. I would be glad if someone can explain me/us what all of them mean, especially why so many together. Here are the photos: I suppose the blueing is original. Some of the stamps are not that deep as they should be, however it might be originally so. All the numbers I could see on this pistol are matching. I believe no parts were changed except the main spring. As the present owner wanted to shoot with this Luger and it didn't function properly, he cut (don't ask me why) the main spring. Later on he bought a spare from the United States, also he bought a VoPo Magazine hoping that the pistol will work properly. He says the pistol is fine but I have never seen him shooting with her, so I can't say if it functioning or not. If I were him, I would be happy enough to have her. Photos of the slide and the toggle with different views and with and without flashlight. The straw color is still on the parts. According to the skin of the pistol, I expected that the bore would be in a better condition, unfortunately not, see yourself. Firing pin has also the last two digits of the serial number on itself. I am sorry for the mess. I really didn't have time to clean the pistol, properly. Front sight looks fine. These are mostly wounded due to dropping or falling. I hope you can recognize the staps on the barrel. I tried with and without flashlight, not very successful attempts were they I recommend to the ones who are interested to download the photos and magnify them with a image editing program. Both of the grips have the last two digits of the serial number of the pistol stamped on them. And they are not re-checkered Interestingly (of course it is interesting for me, may be it is usual) there are no "GESICHERT" writing on the frame. Grip screws Last but not least, the present owner became also some original ammunition from the old ladies among the Luger. I hope, you can recognize the D.W.M. stamping on the cartridge. Also very interesting cone on this DWM cartridge

07-06-2011, 03:58 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Evren..Did this pistol come with a magazine and what is written on the extractor? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-07-2011, 04:59 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	In my opinion, the gun is OK. The BUG proofs on some barrels are thin. For example, on 1902 Fat Barrel Lugers this is frequently encountered on 100% original guns. On this gun, the barrel numbers having "upset" borders and no halos is, in my opinion, legitimate for an early Luger. I have only seen the barred shield barrel inspector's mark on early commercial guns, 1900, 1902, 1906 and 1908. I have no documentation on this, but I surmise that it is the mark of a DWM inspector that approved a repaired/replaced barrel on a production piece and guns bearing this mark are factory original. In the USA, most Model 1906 9mm Lugers are American Eagles, so a standard Commercial model is uncommon here. To a collector wanting to have representative examples of early commercial Lugers, I would think that a range of $3500-$4000 is not out of the question for an example in this condition (with the 9mm script magazine ). P.S. I wish I had a box full of those DWM 480C truncated cone cartridges! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-09-2011, 02:08 AM	#9
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Evren, It is not advisable to use any original wood bottom mag for shooting. The old wood can become very brittle. The shock of recoil can crack the bottom. __________________ Mike C.

07-06-2011, 07:40 PM	#3
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Evrenay I think you have a very nice early 9mm commercial "06" Luger. They started to make them around serial number 27,000 "BUG" is a barrel proof common to early DWM guns as is the "Shield" inspector mark, this later appears inside frame wells. The 11835 is the bore diameter for a 9 MM Your gun appears original but I would not rule out some use of touch up bluing a long time ago. Your barrel got pitted from the use of ammunition that used corrosive primers and was later thoroughly cleaned . A very nice example of about 3500 guns total made. Much fewer remain today and all command high prices in the condition of your gun. As always, other members may have different opinions. Nice gun! Thanks for posting, such great pictures! Vern

07-07-2011, 12:30 AM	#4
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Dear Jerry, I didn't see the original magazine. He thought the pistol doesn't fire properly with the original so he bought a VoPo magazine from the US. I asked for the original to take photos but it was at his home which was close to his business, however we were running out of time so I couldn't wait for him to bring the original magazine. Nevertheless, I know that it is chrome plated with wooden bottom and on the bottom it has the lettering "9 mm". At least the owner told me so. Dear Vern, in order to give some information to the owner of this pistol, what would you estimate it's price in international market. Just because we are curious about it. As we can not export guns from Turkey (if there is a way to export, I don't know it) this country has it's own market price.

07-07-2011, 03:58 PM	#5
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Evrenay A "Cal 9MM" marked magazine will add considerably to the value of the gun. even in bad condition it is worth quite a lot of money, do not discard it as not usable. I have know way of knowing market values in Turkey for collectable Lugers. I guess you could do some comparisons using like guns in Turkey and other countries and then ratio the numbers. Other members may be better able to help you on questions of value and exporting. Vern

07-07-2011, 04:44 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Does anybody else feel the "BUG" proofs on the barrel are rather thin and buffed? I think that most of the pistol is unmessed with but feel the barrel may have been at the least buffed and perhaps cold blued, (as at least one other member mentioned). The barrel is also shinier than the balance of the pistol's finish.

07-07-2011, 05:38 PM	#8
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Dear Vern, I wasn't asking for a price value in Turkey, I was definitely asking for a price in International (means Europa and the US) markets. Ron gave me the answer I needed. I don't think that the owner is really interested in exporting his gun. I am/were particularly interested in exporting because I own an original matching numbers (slide and frame) 1944 made Colt 1911 .38 Super with G.H.D. inspector stamp and "Ordnance Wheel" on the frame. This is one of 400 made for the O.S.S. and left by them in Istanbul. Anyway, I also own a (wooden bottom, nickel) magazine with 9mm inscription at the bottom and it functions well with my own 1915 Artillery Luger. Sometime, I will post photos of my little Luger-magazine collection along with my Artillery. I have some bad news; I can not find the DWM cartridge which I became as a gift. On the same day we met with the owner of this Luger, we went to a shooting competition and I had other 9x19 cartridges in my pocket. I hope it comes out from somewhere, otherwise I would be really embarrassing for me to have shot a 100 years old bullet in a competition, which I couldn't even win!

07-10-2011, 01:32 PM	#10
rivieraranch User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 101 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	. . .and just in time for Thanksgiving!

07-11-2011, 04:51 AM	#11
evrenay User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eskişehir/Türkiye Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 18 Times in 4 Posts	Dear MFC, thank you very much for your advice. As most of the Luger we have here in Turkey are made between 1900 and 1920 I wouldn't shoot with them much. Actually, I like the to shoot with, if I am going to shoot, Haenel Schmeisser magazines (gefraest mit treppenfeder) more than the older ones (gestanzt mit spiralfeder).