Info on swiss army luger

ThorAlex · 11-25-2006, 01:49 PM

Hi!

I have a swiss army luger wich i want to now a little more about. I'm not sure what model it is but its complete with holster, cleaning set, extra magazines, French manual "1939 temporary edition", metal storing box and some other stuff. I also have a big two edged knife and two swords. all of it is enheritated from my great grand father who was in the swiss army. I dont know much about lugers, in fact i know nothing about lugers, sow i wonder if anyone could tell me something about it, caliber an so on. did the swiss army have 9mm lugers and can this be one? (that would be convenient, i'm in the Norwegian navy and 9x 19mm ammo is standard for the guns we are using). think it's in pretty god shape, but i have only seen it once, my dad have hidden it and don't know i know about it. i thik he is waiting fore time to restore it, but he have to finish a lot of other things first.

Pete Ebbink · 11-25-2006, 04:46 PM

Hi Thor,

Welcome to the Luger Forum and thank you for your first posting (a Swiss luger one at that).

Do you have the capability to take photos of your Swiss luger ? If yes, you can send me a Private Message and I will give you my email address and I could post up your photos for you.

If photos are not possible, could you give us a start at some key information such as :

1. Is your Swiss luger a M1900 (with their distinctive dished-toggle knobs) or a M1906 with the flat and checked toggle knobs ?

2. Could you give us an indication of the full serial number on your luger ? You can leave the last number or two as an "x" if you want to keep the luger's full serial number private. For example, you could report your serial number as # 18xx or # 256xx, etc. This will give us an idea of the proper model desination of your luger and what year is would have been made.

3. What stamping do your see on the top of the receiver's chamber (where the barrel screws into the receiver) ?

Sometimes the chamber will have a Swiss cross/sunburst stamping, sometimes a Swiss cross/shield stamping, or sometimes the chamber will be blank.

4. What stamping do you see on the top surface of the togle joint ?

Sometimes you will see a very stylized and scriptic "DWM". Sometimes you might see " + Waffenfabrik Bern" along 3 lines. Or a different style of a Swiss cross'shield stamping.

Let us know and we will try to "zero in" on your luger's identity...

p.s. Original Swiss lugers in 9 mm are quite rare. My guess would be yours might have had its 7,65 mm barrel replaced after the 9 mm ammunition become more widely used and popular. Photos of any barrel markings or stampings would help to find out about your barrel as well. Or describe what you see on your barrel.

ThorAlex · 11-25-2006, 05:28 PM

Thanks!
I'm afraid i cant get pictures before Christmas, I'm at a navy base 5 hours from home so its difficult to get home for weekends. as i remember the toggle knobs it seems to be a m1506 but i cant be shore. After having read a little more on this forum i thought i should describe it a little more.
It have the dark (black) handle and as far as i remember the swiss cross/shield, but I'm really not shore about the cross.
since original 9mm lugers are so rare it's probably a 7,65mm. It was owned by my great grand father (on my mothers side) until he died, and then it was taken over by my father since he was the only one in the family daring to have it. since he is Norwegian and my mother moved here with him the luger ended up here. after seeing pictures here and wen thinking about the story i thin this is an original one, but I'll have to check wen i come home.

Pete Ebbink · 11-25-2006, 10:15 PM

Hi Thor,

Does your family luger look like this one ??? These are a M1929 Swiss Bern luger which came in red, brown, and black plastic grips.

If not, take a look at the Swiss luger offerings on this web site and let me know what Inventory Number looks the closest to your luger :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=1_13

ThorAlex · 11-26-2006, 06:43 AM

Thanks fore taking the time to answer!
i think that looks very much like mine, but I'll have to check wen I'm home for Christmas, and i will try to take some pictures too

Pete Ebbink · 11-26-2006, 01:20 PM

No hurry, Thor...

When you are home, take photos and let us know the serial number. We will be able to tell you more about when it was made.

The M1929 Swiss lugers made in Bern ran in production from 1933 through 1947. About ~ 28,000 were made, total...give or take a few.

The early ones came out in a red bakelite-type material called canvesite. It was brittle and broke easily. Then they switched to brown plastic and finally to black plastic.

There were both military Ordnance issued M1929's and a much smaller quantity of commercial guns. Those have a "P" as a prefix to the full serial number on the left side of the receiver and on top of the rear toggle joint.

ThorAlex · 12-31-2006, 09:26 AM

well here comes the pictures. They are not very good but i hope tey will do.
It's a DWM with cross in shield mark, serial number is 106xx.

Edit: there seems to be no other markings than the original ones.

drbuster · 12-31-2006, 10:16 AM

ThorAlex, you have posted blurred photographs of a very nice 1906 Swiss Cross in Shield luger rig! Consider yourself very lucky as, in my opinion, this model rig is more valued and coveted that the later model 1929. I happen to feel it is esthetically more attractive, as well. I certainly would like to see sharper photographs. This rig would certainly command in excess of $3.5K on a site such as SimpsonLTD.

ThorAlex · 12-31-2006, 11:57 AM

The photos are bad because i could not find the camera so i had to use my cellphone. unfortunatly i will take a long time before i can take new photos, i will probabely not get home egain before august.
thanks fore identifying it! As fore the finish it have a cuple ov very small scrathes on the side but apart from that i think its in a very good condition. I haven't taken it apart so i'm not shure, but all sereal numbers i could find on the outside are matching.

Pete Ebbink · 12-31-2006, 02:51 PM

Hi Thor,

Very nice. You are lucky to own the Swiss luger rig

BTW...the magazine with the wooden bottom is not correct for your M1906 DWM-Swiss luger.

It appears more appropriate for the '24 Bern Swiss luger (aka M1906 W+F Luger).

The two other Swiss "insert" disk magazines would be correct for your M1906 Luger.

Based on your Luger's serial number of # 106xx, it was made in Germany by DWM for the Swiss in 1909; a year when 2,950 lugers were delivered to the Swiss.

If you remember, could you tell me what proof stampings your luger has on its left side of the receiver flat ?

p.s. I think your luger's finish looks just fine and may even possibly be factory original. I would not suggest your father re-finish the gun; as you mentioned in your 1st. opening posting. In the USA, this would drastically reduce its monetary value as a collectible gun.

Heinz · 12-31-2006, 04:42 PM

Thor, why do you think this is a 9mm? Originally it would have been a 7.65 parabellum, a cartridge that came before the 9mm and was favored by the Swiss through wwII. The 9mm cartridge will fit in the 7.65 parabellum magazine, but obviously would be dangerous to try to put in the firing chamber.

Check the barrel inside diameter at the muzzle. If it is approximately 7.65 mm it is an original 7.65 parabellum. If it is approximately 9mm it has been rebarreled and will be much cheaper to shoot :-)

11-25-2006, 01:49 PM	#1
ThorAlex User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Info on swiss army luger Hi! I have a swiss army luger wich i want to now a little more about. I'm not sure what model it is but its complete with holster, cleaning set, extra magazines, French manual "1939 temporary edition", metal storing box and some other stuff. I also have a big two edged knife and two swords. all of it is enheritated from my great grand father who was in the swiss army. I dont know much about lugers, in fact i know nothing about lugers, sow i wonder if anyone could tell me something about it, caliber an so on. did the swiss army have 9mm lugers and can this be one? (that would be convenient, i'm in the Norwegian navy and 9x 19mm ammo is standard for the guns we are using). think it's in pretty god shape, but i have only seen it once, my dad have hidden it and don't know i know about it. i thik he is waiting fore time to restore it, but he have to finish a lot of other things first.

11-25-2006, 04:46 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thor, Welcome to the Luger Forum and thank you for your first posting (a Swiss luger one at that). Do you have the capability to take photos of your Swiss luger ? If yes, you can send me a Private Message and I will give you my email address and I could post up your photos for you. If photos are not possible, could you give us a start at some key information such as : 1. Is your Swiss luger a M1900 (with their distinctive dished-toggle knobs) or a M1906 with the flat and checked toggle knobs ? 2. Could you give us an indication of the full serial number on your luger ? You can leave the last number or two as an "x" if you want to keep the luger's full serial number private. For example, you could report your serial number as # 18xx or # 256xx, etc. This will give us an idea of the proper model desination of your luger and what year is would have been made. 3. What stamping do your see on the top of the receiver's chamber (where the barrel screws into the receiver) ? Sometimes the chamber will have a Swiss cross/sunburst stamping, sometimes a Swiss cross/shield stamping, or sometimes the chamber will be blank. 4. What stamping do you see on the top surface of the togle joint ? Sometimes you will see a very stylized and scriptic "DWM". Sometimes you might see " + Waffenfabrik Bern" along 3 lines. Or a different style of a Swiss cross'shield stamping. Let us know and we will try to "zero in" on your luger's identity... p.s. Original Swiss lugers in 9 mm are quite rare. My guess would be yours might have had its 7,65 mm barrel replaced after the 9 mm ammunition become more widely used and popular. Photos of any barrel markings or stampings would help to find out about your barrel as well. Or describe what you see on your barrel.

11-25-2006, 05:28 PM	#3
ThorAlex User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks! I'm afraid i cant get pictures before Christmas, I'm at a navy base 5 hours from home so its difficult to get home for weekends. as i remember the toggle knobs it seems to be a m1506 but i cant be shore. After having read a little more on this forum i thought i should describe it a little more. It have the dark (black) handle and as far as i remember the swiss cross/shield, but I'm really not shore about the cross. since original 9mm lugers are so rare it's probably a 7,65mm. It was owned by my great grand father (on my mothers side) until he died, and then it was taken over by my father since he was the only one in the family daring to have it. since he is Norwegian and my mother moved here with him the luger ended up here. after seeing pictures here and wen thinking about the story i thin this is an original one, but I'll have to check wen i come home.

11-25-2006, 10:15 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thor, Does your family luger look like this one ??? These are a M1929 Swiss Bern luger which came in red, brown, and black plastic grips. If not, take a look at the Swiss luger offerings on this web site and let me know what Inventory Number looks the closest to your luger : http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=1_13

11-26-2006, 06:43 AM	#5
ThorAlex User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks fore taking the time to answer! i think that looks very much like mine, but I'll have to check wen I'm home for Christmas, and i will try to take some pictures too

11-26-2006, 01:20 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	No hurry, Thor... When you are home, take photos and let us know the serial number. We will be able to tell you more about when it was made. The M1929 Swiss lugers made in Bern ran in production from 1933 through 1947. About ~ 28,000 were made, total...give or take a few. The early ones came out in a red bakelite-type material called canvesite. It was brittle and broke easily. Then they switched to brown plastic and finally to black plastic. There were both military Ordnance issued M1929's and a much smaller quantity of commercial guns. Those have a "P" as a prefix to the full serial number on the left side of the receiver and on top of the rear toggle joint.

12-31-2006, 09:26 AM	#7
ThorAlex User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	well here comes the pictures. They are not very good but i hope tey will do. It's a DWM with cross in shield mark, serial number is 106xx. Edit: there seems to be no other markings than the original ones.

12-31-2006, 10:16 AM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	ThorAlex, you have posted blurred photographs of a very nice 1906 Swiss Cross in Shield luger rig! Consider yourself very lucky as, in my opinion, this model rig is more valued and coveted that the later model 1929. I happen to feel it is esthetically more attractive, as well. I certainly would like to see sharper photographs. This rig would certainly command in excess of $3.5K on a site such as SimpsonLTD.

12-31-2006, 11:57 AM	#9
ThorAlex User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The photos are bad because i could not find the camera so i had to use my cellphone. unfortunatly i will take a long time before i can take new photos, i will probabely not get home egain before august. thanks fore identifying it! As fore the finish it have a cuple ov very small scrathes on the side but apart from that i think its in a very good condition. I haven't taken it apart so i'm not shure, but all sereal numbers i could find on the outside are matching.

12-31-2006, 02:51 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Thor, Very nice. You are lucky to own the Swiss luger rig BTW...the magazine with the wooden bottom is not correct for your M1906 DWM-Swiss luger. It appears more appropriate for the '24 Bern Swiss luger (aka M1906 W+F Luger). The two other Swiss "insert" disk magazines would be correct for your M1906 Luger. Based on your Luger's serial number of # 106xx, it was made in Germany by DWM for the Swiss in 1909; a year when 2,950 lugers were delivered to the Swiss. If you remember, could you tell me what proof stampings your luger has on its left side of the receiver flat ? p.s. I think your luger's finish looks just fine and may even possibly be factory original. I would not suggest your father re-finish the gun; as you mentioned in your 1st. opening posting. In the USA, this would drastically reduce its monetary value as a collectible gun.

12-31-2006, 04:42 PM	#11
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Thor, why do you think this is a 9mm? Originally it would have been a 7.65 parabellum, a cartridge that came before the 9mm and was favored by the Swiss through wwII. The 9mm cartridge will fit in the 7.65 parabellum magazine, but obviously would be dangerous to try to put in the firing chamber. Check the barrel inside diameter at the muzzle. If it is approximately 7.65 mm it is an original 7.65 parabellum. If it is approximately 9mm it has been rebarreled and will be much cheaper to shoot :-)