Mismatched Military Luger Question(s)

Mike Fitz · 11-21-2003, 05:17 PM

Hi Everybody, <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
I have a question (actually a bunch of questions) about mismatched military (mainly Third Reich era) Lugers.

Are mismatched combinations, such as a 1939 or 1940 Code 42 with a byf complete toggle assembly frequently found?
By complete toggle assemblys I mean extractor, center toggle link, rear toggle link, breech block, firing pin and all related springs and pins etc and parts with numbers all matching.
I'm just using the Code 42 / byf as an example. Any other configurations also K dates, G dates, Mauser Banners, S/42's in any combination or variation?
Was it possible to interchange these parts with different Mauser models.
How about interchangability of parts between Mausers, Kreighoff's, Simsons, Erfurts and DWM's?
Being an Armorer in the Wermacht must have been a nightmare! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
Speaking of Armorers, I saw mention made in another posting about Armorer's Kits. Did they carry parts for all the different variations? Barrels, Toggles, side plates, firing pins, grips, magazines,springs, pins etc., etc., etc.
How were replacement parts marked? Were parts that would normally be marked serial numbered? Would the armorer interchange parts from a pile of damaged guns?

What was the main cause of these mismatched Lugers?
I learned while collecting WW2 1911A1's that it is not uncommon to find a Colt frame with a Remington Rand slide or a Remington Rand frame with a Union Switch & Signal slide and an Ithaca mainspring housing and thats just the mismatched visible parts.
Sorry for the 101 questions.

I just ordered Jan Stills book on Third Reich Lugers but don't know if any of these questions will be answered in it.
As always thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my numerous questions.
Mike
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Navy · 11-21-2003, 06:54 PM

Mike,

Welcome to the forum.

Mismatched Lugers are the rule rather than the exception, hence the collector interest and premium paid for them.

The mix and mis-match is due, in most cases, NOT to unit armorers, but to the inattention of GIs from many nations who were detailed to disassemble, clean, preserve and reassemble captured Lugers during the immediate post-war period.

I can remember from my youth the wonderful pictures in the Hy Hunter catalogues showing a couple or 3 GIs, with gallon buckets of GI bore cleaner and piles of Lugers several feet high that were being disassembled for preservation. There were many disassembled Lugers on the table at the same time.

As far as the parts not being compatible, it isn't a big deal from a functional standpoint. Generally speaking, all OEM parts from 1904 forward were pretty much 100% interchangable, exceptions being the side plate, most notably.

So enjoy your shooter and when you decide to move up in the collector realm, feel free to consult members here.

Tom A.

Mike Fitz · 11-21-2003, 09:30 PM

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply.
Actually I don't have a mismatched Luger. My one and only Luger (so far) is a 1939 code 42 all matching except for the magazine.
I was just wondering about mismatched Lugers because of my experiences where I ran across numerous 1911A1's that were mismatched as I described.
I also understand that you see a lot of mismatched (barrel, frame & slide all different serial no.'s) P-38's especially in the late war Walther / ac45 series that were thrown together
near the end of the war or when our troops occupied the Walther factory.
Mike

11-21-2003, 05:17 PM	#1
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mismatched Military Luger Question(s) Hi Everybody, <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> I have a question (actually a bunch of questions) about mismatched military (mainly Third Reich era) Lugers. Are mismatched combinations, such as a 1939 or 1940 Code 42 with a byf complete toggle assembly frequently found? By complete toggle assemblys I mean extractor, center toggle link, rear toggle link, breech block, firing pin and all related springs and pins etc and parts with numbers all matching. I'm just using the Code 42 / byf as an example. Any other configurations also K dates, G dates, Mauser Banners, S/42's in any combination or variation? Was it possible to interchange these parts with different Mauser models. How about interchangability of parts between Mausers, Kreighoff's, Simsons, Erfurts and DWM's? Being an Armorer in the Wermacht must have been a nightmare! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> Speaking of Armorers, I saw mention made in another posting about Armorer's Kits. Did they carry parts for all the different variations? Barrels, Toggles, side plates, firing pins, grips, magazines,springs, pins etc., etc., etc. How were replacement parts marked? Were parts that would normally be marked serial numbered? Would the armorer interchange parts from a pile of damaged guns? What was the main cause of these mismatched Lugers? I learned while collecting WW2 1911A1's that it is not uncommon to find a Colt frame with a Remington Rand slide or a Remington Rand frame with a Union Switch & Signal slide and an Ithaca mainspring housing and thats just the mismatched visible parts. Sorry for the 101 questions. I just ordered Jan Stills book on Third Reich Lugers but don't know if any of these questions will be answered in it. As always thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my numerous questions. Mike <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

11-21-2003, 06:54 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Mike, Welcome to the forum. Mismatched Lugers are the rule rather than the exception, hence the collector interest and premium paid for them. The mix and mis-match is due, in most cases, NOT to unit armorers, but to the inattention of GIs from many nations who were detailed to disassemble, clean, preserve and reassemble captured Lugers during the immediate post-war period. I can remember from my youth the wonderful pictures in the Hy Hunter catalogues showing a couple or 3 GIs, with gallon buckets of GI bore cleaner and piles of Lugers several feet high that were being disassembled for preservation. There were many disassembled Lugers on the table at the same time. As far as the parts not being compatible, it isn't a big deal from a functional standpoint. Generally speaking, all OEM parts from 1904 forward were pretty much 100% interchangable, exceptions being the side plate, most notably. So enjoy your shooter and when you decide to move up in the collector realm, feel free to consult members here. Tom A.

11-21-2003, 09:30 PM	#3
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply. Actually I don't have a mismatched Luger. My one and only Luger (so far) is a 1939 code 42 all matching except for the magazine. I was just wondering about mismatched Lugers because of my experiences where I ran across numerous 1911A1's that were mismatched as I described. I also understand that you see a lot of mismatched (barrel, frame & slide all different serial no.'s) P-38's especially in the late war Walther / ac45 series that were thrown together near the end of the war or when our troops occupied the Walther factory. Mike