1937 Commercial - Rust vs Salt

Ford · 06-09-2002, 02:54 PM

Hello everyone
Has anyone ever seen a 37 commercial with salt blue finish along with strawed small parts? Like a dummy I went to a gun-show in Lakeland Florida yesterday without any reference books. I ended up buying a 37 commercial luger (crown/U) with the salt and straw finish. Has anyone seen this in a gun that early. I believe the gun is salt blued because it much is darker than my 1937 military luger that has the proper (rust blue / strawed small part finish). I understand that mauser went to the salt blue process in 1937, but I also know that they stopped strawing the small parts at the same time. The commercial gun is absolutely mint and shows no tooling marks what so ever - it just that the finish seems darker than my other gun. Has anyone seen this in a commercial banner? I love the gun, but am thinking about taking it back. ($1800 bucks is the damage)
thanks FOrd

Johnny Peppers · 06-09-2002, 03:03 PM

Ford,
I have a very late Mauser Banner commercial with a 42 chamber date and E/N proofs. It is salt blued with strawed parts. For me the salt blued finish is harder to determine if original than the rust blue. The strawing is usually the clue as to whether it is original or not. I have no way to describe it, but the old strawing has a depth that that the re-straw lacks.

Ford · 06-09-2002, 04:18 PM

Thanks Johnny:

I see an example of your luger on page 244 of Jan Still's "Third Reich Lugers." It always makes you feel good to see one in a book similar that is similar to yours. At least you know that "42 byf with straw" is a legitimate variation. I was hoping to find a reference similar to that one, only with a 1937 date. As it stands now, I don't know if I have a legitimate variation or not.

I see no evidence that the gun is re-blued. It's just that I would feel better if I read somewhere that Mauser did use straw small parts on salt blue lugers The info available for Commercials is really sketchy. Perhaps I should buy Costanza'a reference if I'm going to be serious about this. By the way, the serial is 6980v.

It could be that the gun is just so unworn that it appears darker than my other rust blue lugers? In the sun it looks very blue, but inside, it appears very dark. This may be the case since it is virtually a 100% gun. I'll get to the bottom of it eventually.

thanks again

Johnny Peppers · 06-09-2002, 05:20 PM

Ford,
My Mauser Banner commercial is marked like the one you mentioned, except mine is a 4 3/4" in .30 Luger.

Herb · 06-09-2002, 06:52 PM

<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> Ford, Costanzo's book, World of Lugers Proof Marks wont give you that info. Other than an intro on the evolution of the Luger Factories it deals with Luger proof marks, locations, years found, ect.ect. It is a great book but rarer than frog teeth and expensive. I think that most of his research was done at Ralph's and at the time was accurate, and still is for the weapons examined. I can probably find one for you if you are serious, they go from between $250 to over $400 depending upon the condition.

ken d · 06-09-2002, 09:08 PM

Ford
I have an undated Banner Coml E/N proofed left side serial #7xx, no small letter. It also is "mint", regular small parts strawed with the exception of the ejector which is blued. Gun is salt blued and appears slightly darker than my other similar condition police banners. Maybe
because of contrasting strawed parts--- maybe not.

Ford · 06-09-2002, 10:42 PM

Ken, it sounds like you might have a 1934 Mauser COmmercial per Keynons "Lugers at Random," (page 260). However, you may have the same problem as me. The reference just says that early examples were rust blued and later ones were salt blued. That doesn't exclude you gun, but it doesn't offer enough information to firmly include it either. Wouldn't it make you feel better if it stated that some of them were salt blued with strawed small parts, save the ejector? I guess I always like to see a specific example of the one I have. It makes it easier to sell when the time comes (heaven forbid). I do see lots of commercials in "Third Reich Lugers" that have strawed small parts except for the ejector.

What happened to the fun? I just wanted to enjoy a gun show and instead, I have embarked upon this voyage of (expensive) uncertainty.

THanks to everyone for your input, but I have contacted the seller and we'll iron this out tomorrow night. He has a fair Navy that is still available, and I'll probably trade back for that one. The navy is more expensive and is in no where near the condition of the 37 commercial, but at least I know exactly what it is.

I'll post tomorrow night and let you know how it came out.

Regards Ford

ken d · 06-10-2002, 08:24 PM

Ford:
You are correct I would feel better if existing information more specifically confirmed my luger finish. The only reason for my optimism--I bought it from an individual at well below the market price. Good luck on your quest.

ken

06-09-2002, 02:54 PM	#1
Ford New User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne FL Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1937 Commercial - Rust vs Salt Hello everyone Has anyone ever seen a 37 commercial with salt blue finish along with strawed small parts? Like a dummy I went to a gun-show in Lakeland Florida yesterday without any reference books. I ended up buying a 37 commercial luger (crown/U) with the salt and straw finish. Has anyone seen this in a gun that early. I believe the gun is salt blued because it much is darker than my 1937 military luger that has the proper (rust blue / strawed small part finish). I understand that mauser went to the salt blue process in 1937, but I also know that they stopped strawing the small parts at the same time. The commercial gun is absolutely mint and shows no tooling marks what so ever - it just that the finish seems darker than my other gun. Has anyone seen this in a commercial banner? I love the gun, but am thinking about taking it back. ($1800 bucks is the damage) thanks FOrd

06-09-2002, 06:52 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> Ford, Costanzo's book, World of Lugers Proof Marks wont give you that info. Other than an intro on the evolution of the Luger Factories it deals with Luger proof marks, locations, years found, ect.ect. It is a great book but rarer than frog teeth and expensive. I think that most of his research was done at Ralph's and at the time was accurate, and still is for the weapons examined. I can probably find one for you if you are serious, they go from between $250 to over $400 depending upon the condition. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

06-09-2002, 03:03 PM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ford, I have a very late Mauser Banner commercial with a 42 chamber date and E/N proofs. It is salt blued with strawed parts. For me the salt blued finish is harder to determine if original than the rust blue. The strawing is usually the clue as to whether it is original or not. I have no way to describe it, but the old strawing has a depth that that the re-straw lacks.

06-09-2002, 04:18 PM	#3
Ford New User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne FL Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Johnny: I see an example of your luger on page 244 of Jan Still's "Third Reich Lugers." It always makes you feel good to see one in a book similar that is similar to yours. At least you know that "42 byf with straw" is a legitimate variation. I was hoping to find a reference similar to that one, only with a 1937 date. As it stands now, I don't know if I have a legitimate variation or not. I see no evidence that the gun is re-blued. It's just that I would feel better if I read somewhere that Mauser did use straw small parts on salt blue lugers The info available for Commercials is really sketchy. Perhaps I should buy Costanza'a reference if I'm going to be serious about this. By the way, the serial is 6980v. It could be that the gun is just so unworn that it appears darker than my other rust blue lugers? In the sun it looks very blue, but inside, it appears very dark. This may be the case since it is virtually a 100% gun. I'll get to the bottom of it eventually. thanks again

06-09-2002, 05:20 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ford, My Mauser Banner commercial is marked like the one you mentioned, except mine is a 4 3/4" in .30 Luger.

06-09-2002, 09:08 PM	#6
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Ford I have an undated Banner Coml E/N proofed left side serial #7xx, no small letter. It also is "mint", regular small parts strawed with the exception of the ejector which is blued. Gun is salt blued and appears slightly darker than my other similar condition police banners. Maybe because of contrasting strawed parts--- maybe not.

06-09-2002, 10:42 PM	#7
Ford New User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne FL Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ken, it sounds like you might have a 1934 Mauser COmmercial per Keynons "Lugers at Random," (page 260). However, you may have the same problem as me. The reference just says that early examples were rust blued and later ones were salt blued. That doesn't exclude you gun, but it doesn't offer enough information to firmly include it either. Wouldn't it make you feel better if it stated that some of them were salt blued with strawed small parts, save the ejector? I guess I always like to see a specific example of the one I have. It makes it easier to sell when the time comes (heaven forbid). I do see lots of commercials in "Third Reich Lugers" that have strawed small parts except for the ejector. What happened to the fun? I just wanted to enjoy a gun show and instead, I have embarked upon this voyage of (expensive) uncertainty. THanks to everyone for your input, but I have contacted the seller and we'll iron this out tomorrow night. He has a fair Navy that is still available, and I'll probably trade back for that one. The navy is more expensive and is in no where near the condition of the 37 commercial, but at least I know exactly what it is. I'll post tomorrow night and let you know how it came out. Regards Ford

06-10-2002, 08:24 PM	#8
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Ford: You are correct I would feel better if existing information more specifically confirmed my luger finish. The only reason for my optimism--I bought it from an individual at well below the market price. Good luck on your quest. ken