1908 Navy

Edward Tinker · 06-07-2005, 10:54 PM

Okay, no Imperial Luger books at the house, so tell me what I have here if someone could

It went to england at one time, and is marked with their "normal" proofs on the left and under the barrel. Sorry those pics turned out so poor.

Its not as pretty as any of Tom's, but it is a real navy with a navy marking on the mag. so, when did they make mags like this??

Ed

Ron Smith · 06-07-2005, 11:49 PM

Hey Ed, Finally got a Navy! Not a bad looking pistol.

Ron

Big Norm · 06-18-2005, 12:09 AM

Ed,
maybe not as good as one of Toms and maybe it has British proof marks, but I think its beautiful. The locking bolt looks like it hasn't been messed with. (You know that is one of those things that I look at first) The only thing that I wonder about is the little finger of the side plate has what looks like it has a crown with maybe "9 mp" stamped on it. I have to look at one of my navies to see if that marking is there. I don't remember, right off hand, seeing that on my navies.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 06-18-2005, 12:17 AM

Ed, I just saw the same British mark on your receiver just above the same mark on the side plates finger. It must be part of the British marking routine. The grips look pretty good. Are they numbered to the gun? Nice buy. Big Norm
PS I got my new computer. Yep, its a Mac.

Edward Tinker · 06-18-2005, 12:19 AM

Hey Big Norm, I asumed mp was a brit stamp??

Ed

Ron Wood · 06-18-2005, 12:41 AM

Nice looking Navy Ed! Would you believe "BNP"? The Crown/BNP is the "British Nitro Proof" and its use dates from the early 1950s.

Pete Ebbink · 06-18-2005, 11:30 AM

One of the 'stories' with British proofs that some dealers use to add "
value" to a luger is this. I have even heard this story from one of the larger dealers that should know better (or probably does...).

1. Gun was captured by the British and taken back to England.

2. Gun was then proofed and sent back with British commando's doing infiltration work behind the German lines.

This story never made any sense to me. Why the heck would a British commando dressed up as a German soldier behind German lines want to carry a luger with its newly added British proofs...??? Why not pin a bull's eye and sign on his back that says..."British commando/spy...shoot here"....???

I think the gun came over :

1. Either as a Brit bring back just after WWII and was inspected/proofed based on English gun proofing laws.

2. Gun came over to England later in the 1950's or later and was proofed according to proofing laws in effect at the time of importation. As Ron Wood metnioned, probably the case with this Navy...

Based on the type of British proofs applied, I think a luger with early proofs and its ties to a British bring-back vet would be more interesting to own than a later British importation piece...IMHO.

Ed, since you like war stories tied to lugers...I would opt to find a bring-back Navy rather than one of the later importationn lugers...if I were in your shoes...

Navy · 06-18-2005, 12:27 PM

All,

The *most likely* explanation for the Brit proofs is that the piece was once owned by Sam Cummings' company, Interarms. Sam had massive warehouses of weapons stored in England and in Monaco. The Brits required the proofing as a condition of entry and storage into the UK.

Tom A.

jamese · 06-19-2005, 08:47 AM

OK Guys,
that takes care of the First question,
I'm very interested in the answer to the second guestion about the mags?

Tom, or Norm any ideas or comments

Jim

Navy · 06-19-2005, 10:32 AM

The non-concentric ring mags start showing up in the low to mid range of 1908 Nay guns. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to their appearance as concentric rings are also intermixed in the same serial number range. A plausable theory is that they were pulled out of stock that was made for the Army to relieve a production shortfall or two.

In any event, I have examples of concentric ring mags on Navy guns dated 1917 and non-concentric with guns produced well before 1914.

Kinda reminds me of the property mark conundrum.

Tom A

Edward Tinker · 06-19-2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks Tom, I wondered...

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Norm
Big Norm
PS I got my new computer. Yep, its a Mac.

Big Norm, I assumed you'd get the "same", but the most important thing, is that it has all the bells and whistles?? The newer ones, although they run on Mac, uh stuff, still do all the Winders type of things I beleive?

Sieger · 06-19-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete Ebbink

Why not pin a bull's eye and sign on his back that says..."British commando/spy...shoot here"....

Pete:

In all of my years on this forum, this is the funniest thing I have ever read!!

I can just see the Brit now with his back to the wall trying to explain the British proofs on his Lange P-08 to a German officer.

Ha!!

Sieger

Big Norm · 06-20-2005, 08:53 PM

Hey Pete, go easy on our buddy. I don't know what he paid for this beauty, but except for a ding on the side plate and maybe some pitting on the front of the trigger guard, he has a nice navy here. All the original markings look pretty crisp and nowadays just having a navy Luger is an accomplishment. Someday, having British markings on an otherwise nice but rare navy Luger won't matter that much.

Ed, what about the grips? Are they numbered to the gun? Whats the bore like? Contrary to what you emailed to me, the gun is definately not ugly. There are a lot of guys out there who would love to have it. Now you have to get a navy holster and a navy stock. Maybe a WW1 German navy hat to wear to the range when you shoot your prize. Maybe a little WW1 German style curl on your mustache. Yah! That'll do it! A mustache with curls at the tips is that finishing touch. Anyway, nice going.
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Norm
Maybe a little WW1 German style curl on your mustache. Yah! That'll do it! A mustache with curls at the tips is that finishing touch. Anyway, nice going.
Big Norm

nah, I am working on a wild west long mustache!! Seriously!!

Now, I need some old west pictures of cowboys and luggers!!

Ed

Big Norm · 06-21-2005, 09:05 PM

OH! OH! Watch out world, here comes Quick Draw Tinker. I always wondered something...wasn't there once a famous TV star named Tinker Bell? I don't think that he had a mustache though.
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 06-21-2005, 11:18 PM

"He" did carry a 9mm tho

Paul L · 06-22-2005, 12:16 AM

Big Norm,

ROTFLMAO.....

ED,

I can see you now Q.D.T.....trying to pull that new Navy of yours out of an HHH flap holster facing down some bad HOMBRE at 20 paces.....

side note:

will put in a good word for you and your dad and family......

Best Regards, Paul

06-07-2005, 10:54 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	1908 Navy Okay, no Imperial Luger books at the house, so tell me what I have here if someone could It went to england at one time, and is marked with their "normal" proofs on the left and under the barrel. Sorry those pics turned out so poor. Its not as pretty as any of Tom's, but it is a real navy with a navy marking on the mag. so, when did they make mags like this?? Ed

06-07-2005, 11:49 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hey Ed, Finally got a Navy! Not a bad looking pistol. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-18-2005, 12:41 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Nice looking Navy Ed! Would you believe "BNP"? The Crown/BNP is the "British Nitro Proof" and its use dates from the early 1950s. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-19-2005, 08:47 AM	#9
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	OK Guys, that takes care of the First question, I'm very interested in the answer to the second guestion about the mags? Tom, or Norm any ideas or comments Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

06-21-2005, 11:18 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	"He" did carry a 9mm tho __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-18-2005, 12:09 AM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ed, maybe not as good as one of Toms and maybe it has British proof marks, but I think its beautiful. The locking bolt looks like it hasn't been messed with. (You know that is one of those things that I look at first) The only thing that I wonder about is the little finger of the side plate has what looks like it has a crown with maybe "9 mp" stamped on it. I have to look at one of my navies to see if that marking is there. I don't remember, right off hand, seeing that on my navies. Big Norm

06-18-2005, 12:17 AM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ed, I just saw the same British mark on your receiver just above the same mark on the side plates finger. It must be part of the British marking routine. The grips look pretty good. Are they numbered to the gun? Nice buy. Big Norm PS I got my new computer. Yep, its a Mac.

06-18-2005, 12:19 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Hey Big Norm, I asumed mp was a brit stamp?? Ed

06-18-2005, 11:30 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	One of the 'stories' with British proofs that some dealers use to add " value" to a luger is this. I have even heard this story from one of the larger dealers that should know better (or probably does...). 1. Gun was captured by the British and taken back to England. 2. Gun was then proofed and sent back with British commando's doing infiltration work behind the German lines. This story never made any sense to me. Why the heck would a British commando dressed up as a German soldier behind German lines want to carry a luger with its newly added British proofs...??? Why not pin a bull's eye and sign on his back that says..."British commando/spy...shoot here"....??? I think the gun came over : 1. Either as a Brit bring back just after WWII and was inspected/proofed based on English gun proofing laws. 2. Gun came over to England later in the 1950's or later and was proofed according to proofing laws in effect at the time of importation. As Ron Wood metnioned, probably the case with this Navy... Based on the type of British proofs applied, I think a luger with early proofs and its ties to a British bring-back vet would be more interesting to own than a later British importation piece...IMHO. Ed, since you like war stories tied to lugers...I would opt to find a bring-back Navy rather than one of the later importationn lugers...if I were in your shoes...

06-18-2005, 12:27 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, The most likely explanation for the Brit proofs is that the piece was once owned by Sam Cummings' company, Interarms. Sam had massive warehouses of weapons stored in England and in Monaco. The Brits required the proofing as a condition of entry and storage into the UK. Tom A.

06-19-2005, 10:32 AM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The non-concentric ring mags start showing up in the low to mid range of 1908 Nay guns. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to their appearance as concentric rings are also intermixed in the same serial number range. A plausable theory is that they were pulled out of stock that was made for the Army to relieve a production shortfall or two. In any event, I have examples of concentric ring mags on Navy guns dated 1917 and non-concentric with guns produced well before 1914. Kinda reminds me of the property mark conundrum. Tom A

06-20-2005, 08:53 PM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Hey Pete, go easy on our buddy. I don't know what he paid for this beauty, but except for a ding on the side plate and maybe some pitting on the front of the trigger guard, he has a nice navy here. All the original markings look pretty crisp and nowadays just having a navy Luger is an accomplishment. Someday, having British markings on an otherwise nice but rare navy Luger won't matter that much. Ed, what about the grips? Are they numbered to the gun? Whats the bore like? Contrary to what you emailed to me, the gun is definately not ugly. There are a lot of guys out there who would love to have it. Now you have to get a navy holster and a navy stock. Maybe a WW1 German navy hat to wear to the range when you shoot your prize. Maybe a little WW1 German style curl on your mustache. Yah! That'll do it! A mustache with curls at the tips is that finishing touch. Anyway, nice going. Big Norm

06-21-2005, 09:05 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	OH! OH! Watch out world, here comes Quick Draw Tinker. I always wondered something...wasn't there once a famous TV star named Tinker Bell? I don't think that he had a mustache though. Big Norm

06-22-2005, 12:16 AM	#17
Paul L User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Monroe County, SE Mich. Posts: 76 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Quick Draw Tinker Big Norm, ROTFLMAO..... ED, I can see you now Q.D.T.....trying to pull that new Navy of yours out of an HHH flap holster facing down some bad HOMBRE at 20 paces..... side note: will put in a good word for you and your dad and family...... Best Regards, Paul