P08 Frame Abutment Projections???

[sheepherder]

I was looking at Vlim's attachment in mrerick's thread on Luger Frame Tooling Marks Study and the little projections on the frame abutment are missing on the post-war Mauser and Swiss frames...(pic of the post-war Mauser and my wartime P08 attached)...

What exactly were these projections supposed to do??? They were evidently unnecessary or Mauser/Swiss would have kept them...

[John Sabato]

Good Question Rich...

The Swiss eliminated any and all machining operations and features that were unnecessary to proper functioning in their later models... Why these tabs existed in the first place would take some study of the movement of the toggle and slide... Off the top of my head... I haven't got a clue.

[lfid]

my guess is that these little ears were used for either some manufacturing tool / gauge attachment or perhaps were intended to be used as a check that the rear machining was symmetrical

it doesnt seem they align anything after assembly or provide a final flip up method for the toggle rear link underside - and they look too fragile to do much anyway - might even be a hazard to shooters face if ever touched by toggle operation like the worn lugers that rear of breechblock show some impact to that area

anybody ever seen a frame with little ear(s) broken off ?

good question !!!
Bill

[Thor]

Looks like extra vertical support for the toggle axle pin joint at the back of the action opening when the rear toggle is rotating open and closed just to stiffen up the whole arrangement. Like two columns of extra vertical support. Also might be like the toggle lock on early models, seemed like a good idea but with the improved stronger coiled mainspring to keep the action closed longer, it was no longer necessary. "Seemed like a good idea at the time"

[G.T.]

I'm guessing accuracy?? Everything (especially rear toggle sight link) back to the same place every time... Probably one of those little final fitting jobs that the factory does and no ones even aware of?? ...Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

[Vlim]

Hi,

I think it's a combination of factors. It could simply be a redundant feature that got stuck in the paperwork which was approved for the 'P08' design and was retained as a result (the blueprints say that those funny extensions should go there, so we will put them there...).

I think it helps to keep in the grease and keep out the dirt. Remember that these pistols were not designed around modern lubricants, but they were greased up using products like vaseline. Sticky crud.

Swiss lugers in .30 luger are as accurate as they get, without these little extensions, so I doubt that accuracy had anything to do with it.

My favorite reason will be: it was on the prototype, so it went into the drawings, so it was approved by the German army, so it stayed.

[sheepherder]

Vlim, if I'm seeing your pic correctly, even the center projection was left off??? Little pyramidal piece...

[Vlim]

Correct, they are completely flat.

Found this old photo that shows it well. Disregard the frame marking, I have the idea it was faked

[alanint]

Could these have been an attempt to keep the mechanism "dust free" by plugging as many open areas as possible?
This is certainly done in many of today's weapons...

[Vlim]

Looking at it from behind, it is a nice area for foreign objects to wander into and get stuck during combat situations.

[nukem556]

Looking at the pistol in battery, it appears these projections don't really have much contact with the rear toggle....I'd guess their purpose if any, is to provide support at the inner receiver rails to stiffen against any twisting from the torque of firing?

[Ron Wood]

I think it was just another case of "over engineering" to provide an additional guide/alignment for the receiver, and since there is enough "beef" in the rear frame abutment to accomplish that, it was eliminated in the later production. Pretty much what nukem556 said, although I don't think there is any twisting to worry about.