Bad Day Gets Better...

Pete Ebbink · 06-04-2003, 07:30 PM

Wasted most of Saturday going to 4 different hardware stores to get the parts for a DIY project at home. Fed up after the 4th. stop and not finding all the parts, I happened to spot an "Antiques & Doll" shop. Needing a break, I thought; what the heck, let's see if they might have some old luger stuff...

Found a very nice 1941 military holster (which I think is real...). They only wanted $ 68.00 for it. Once I got it home, I removed the stuffing papers to find a real old luger tool (stamped E/655) at the bottom of the holster. I don't think the folks in the shop knew this was there.

All of the stitching is 100% intact and all the stitching thread looks aged and under a 10x loupe, you can see the individual fibers that made up the thread. The material of the thread looks like linen or sisal...sort of like those big ropes that tied down boats at the dock...

On the back is marked :

1. P-08
2. Dtu.41
3. Eagle/WaA 183

From my E. Bender book on page 207, the holster maker is indicated to be the G. J. Ensink & Co.

The lift-out strap is intact and the holster smells like old shoes (not smelly old shoes, just an old leather smell...).

I think I found a decent 1941 holster for my '41 Mauser "Black Widow".

Let me know what you folks think of the photos and whether this holster is real or not :

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 06-04-2003, 07:32 PM

2nd. batch of photos :

John Sabato · 06-05-2003, 10:16 AM

Pete,

Most of the holster body parts look real...but the tool pocket seems to be newer looking in the photo...

The stitching doesn't seem to be consistent because the stitching on the back looks almost new and the stitching on the front looks about the same vintage as the holster...

The strap and buckle look old, but I guess we better wait for Herr Burney's evaluation... He will probably want some more photos to make a determination.

Ron Wood · 06-05-2003, 11:29 AM

Pending Jerry's assessment, I think Pete has found a fairly minty '41 holster. The tool pocket looks almost like new because it has been protected. The "patina" on the tool pocket stud looks consistent with aging. IMHO there is no way the stitching on the back can be a different age than the stitching on the front. Once again, the difference in stitching appearance is most likely due to the degree of protection each has had. Overall, the holster is in excellent condition and I would be really surprised if it isn't original. If I'm right..Congrats Pete!

Edward Tinker · 06-05-2003, 12:20 PM

To add to what Ron said, I have a pretty ugly holster I bought off of e-bay (cheap), the front is ugly, the back is actually in very nice shape, I am guessing it was laying back down and the front was exposed to weather, heat / cold etc., to a far harsher degree than the protected back.

ed

Pete Ebbink · 06-05-2003, 12:59 PM

Hello John,

The tool pouch stitching is identical to that of the remainder of the holster. Same material and same "age". The inside leather of the tool pouch does show some patina, so I think it has been on the holster from the beginning.

But you are correct; it does seem like the pouch does not match the rest of the holster.

I will take some high-rez photos this weekend and can e-mail them to anyone who wants to look at this holster in more detail.

For $ 68.00 and the bonus of a "free" E/655 tool; I would have been happy if this was/is a repro holster...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 06-05-2003, 01:11 PM

Pete...

Rather than email, I would recommend that you post the High Resolution photos in the Member Gallery where there is no filesize limitation... and then post the links here... This saves the email bandwidth for those with dialup service (like I have at home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ) and those interested can just jump to the photos.

Frank · 06-05-2003, 04:22 PM

Pete, you lucky son-of-a-b (er Gun)!! It looks to me like you fell into a crapper and came out smelling like a rose!!! Congratulations. For $68 you just about got the holster for free!!!

lugerholsterrepair · 06-05-2003, 07:36 PM

Pete, Without a doubt this is a pre 45 period holster. From the photo's provided I can tell this is far from repro quality. Stitching is straight and correct in all the right places. The stitching looks heavy but I have found this on many 1940's holsters. It is linen from your discription. Linen is made from a plant fiber so I suspect this holster spent some time on it's back. Stitching will yellow with exposure to light. Congratulations on an enexpensive find...we should all be so lucky! Ron and John are on the mark here, the interior tool pouch, if not actually used is protected most of all and on minty holsters tend to look newer than other more exposed parts. Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 06-06-2003, 10:26 AM

The master has spoken! Good Find Pete!

Pete Ebbink · 06-07-2003, 03:48 PM

6-7-03 : Added twenty (20) new higher resolution photos in a gallery in the Member Gallery...

6-8-03 : Added a last photo; a composite "rig" photo...

Enjoy !

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Russ · 06-07-2003, 07:43 PM

Pete that is a great find. I realy enjoy finding things that way.

Russ <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

06-04-2003, 07:30 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Bad Day Gets Better... Wasted most of Saturday going to 4 different hardware stores to get the parts for a DIY project at home. Fed up after the 4th. stop and not finding all the parts, I happened to spot an "Antiques & Doll" shop. Needing a break, I thought; what the heck, let's see if they might have some old luger stuff... Found a very nice 1941 military holster (which I think is real...). They only wanted $ 68.00 for it. Once I got it home, I removed the stuffing papers to find a real old luger tool (stamped E/655) at the bottom of the holster. I don't think the folks in the shop knew this was there. All of the stitching is 100% intact and all the stitching thread looks aged and under a 10x loupe, you can see the individual fibers that made up the thread. The material of the thread looks like linen or sisal...sort of like those big ropes that tied down boats at the dock... On the back is marked : 1. P-08 2. Dtu.41 3. Eagle/WaA 183 From my E. Bender book on page 207, the holster maker is indicated to be the G. J. Ensink & Co. The lift-out strap is intact and the holster smells like old shoes (not smelly old shoes, just an old leather smell...). I think I found a decent 1941 holster for my '41 Mauser "Black Widow". Let me know what you folks think of the photos and whether this holster is real or not : Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-05-2003, 10:16 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Pete, Most of the holster body parts look real...but the tool pocket seems to be newer looking in the photo... The stitching doesn't seem to be consistent because the stitching on the back looks almost new and the stitching on the front looks about the same vintage as the holster... The strap and buckle look old, but I guess we better wait for Herr Burney's evaluation... He will probably want some more photos to make a determination. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-05-2003, 11:29 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Pending Jerry's assessment, I think Pete has found a fairly minty '41 holster. The tool pocket looks almost like new because it has been protected. The "patina" on the tool pocket stud looks consistent with aging. IMHO there is no way the stitching on the back can be a different age than the stitching on the front. Once again, the difference in stitching appearance is most likely due to the degree of protection each has had. Overall, the holster is in excellent condition and I would be really surprised if it isn't original. If I'm right..Congrats Pete! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-05-2003, 12:20 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	To add to what Ron said, I have a pretty ugly holster I bought off of e-bay (cheap), the front is ugly, the back is actually in very nice shape, I am guessing it was laying back down and the front was exposed to weather, heat / cold etc., to a far harsher degree than the protected back. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-05-2003, 01:11 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Pete... Rather than email, I would recommend that you post the High Resolution photos in the Member Gallery where there is no filesize limitation... and then post the links here... This saves the email bandwidth for those with dialup service (like I have at home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ) and those interested can just jump to the photos. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-04-2003, 07:32 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	2nd. batch of photos :

06-05-2003, 12:59 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello John, The tool pouch stitching is identical to that of the remainder of the holster. Same material and same "age". The inside leather of the tool pouch does show some patina, so I think it has been on the holster from the beginning. But you are correct; it does seem like the pouch does not match the rest of the holster. I will take some high-rez photos this weekend and can e-mail them to anyone who wants to look at this holster in more detail. For $ 68.00 and the bonus of a "free" E/655 tool; I would have been happy if this was/is a repro holster... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-05-2003, 04:22 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Pete, you lucky son-of-a-b (er Gun)!! It looks to me like you fell into a crapper and came out smelling like a rose!!! Congratulations. For $68 you just about got the holster for free!!!

06-05-2003, 07:36 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,852 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Pete, Without a doubt this is a pre 45 period holster. From the photo's provided I can tell this is far from repro quality. Stitching is straight and correct in all the right places. The stitching looks heavy but I have found this on many 1940's holsters. It is linen from your discription. Linen is made from a plant fiber so I suspect this holster spent some time on it's back. Stitching will yellow with exposure to light. Congratulations on an enexpensive find...we should all be so lucky! Ron and John are on the mark here, the interior tool pouch, if not actually used is protected most of all and on minty holsters tend to look newer than other more exposed parts. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-06-2003, 10:26 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The master has spoken! Good Find Pete! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-07-2003, 03:48 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	6-7-03 : Added twenty (20) new higher resolution photos in a gallery in the Member Gallery... 6-8-03 : Added a last photo; a composite "rig" photo... Enjoy ! Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-07-2003, 07:43 PM	#12
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Pete that is a great find. I realy enjoy finding things that way. Russ <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!