DWM crown-over-M, grip safety?

Ugluk · 04-05-2011, 05:09 PM

Hi, new guy here
I just yesterday got my P08, having bought it for the equivalent of $70 as a mismatched shooter. On closer inspection I can't find any obvious mismatches other than that the barrel is unmarked and the front sight looks odd.
But then I don't know much about these pistols.

I've been reading like crazy trying to figure out what it is I've got. Apart from a neat rather beat up gun with a broken ejector.. (It broke today on the range)

I'm no collector, but I would still very much like to know how old it is and some of its history.

Cheers
Conny, Sweden

FNorm · 04-05-2011, 05:31 PM

Connie,

The frame appears to be a 1906 Imperial Navy. There are people here who specialize in those, so I'll let them comment. New ejectors are available. Look up Lugerdoc on this Forum.

Some overall pics of the left, right and top would be nice.

FN

Norme · 04-05-2011, 05:35 PM

Hi Conny, Welcome to the forum. Your "mismatched, shooter P08" is actually a very interesting and desirable Imperial Navy P04. True, it has a replacement 4" barrel and rear toggle, but still, it's an honest old sailor and it seems a shame to shoot it. Regards, Norm

Ugluk · 04-05-2011, 05:35 PM

That would be good news! I was hoping that it had a real history. It tickles my imagination no end if it is actually over a century old. Commercial sound so boring.

It shoots real sweet and feed my mild handloads like butter. Nice smooth and tight bore (.355) as well.

Ugluk · 04-05-2011, 05:41 PM

Norme,
Not so good news then, as I really bought it to shoot it.

I'll just have to be really careful with it.

Thanks for your help and greetings both of you!

Now I know what to study.

Cheers

Norme · 04-05-2011, 05:52 PM

Hi Conny, Send me an email at normrab@comcast.net and I'll send you the link to the Navy List, which lists all known surviving Imperial Navy Lugers. In the meantime, please let me know if the safety has been altered (Gesichert in the upper position), and whether it has a Navy magazine. Regards, Norm

Ugluk · 04-05-2011, 06:06 PM

FNorme,
I'm happy to oblige.

Norm,
The safety is stamped "gesichert" under the lever. I can upload a pic of it if you like. It's not the slanting italics I've seen on other lugers pictured here on the forum.

The magazine does not match, it's plastic bottomed.

Edit: Email sent

Ugluk · 04-06-2011, 01:58 PM

My 1906 navy is stamped ww7022 on the backstrap. I've snoped around and read that this would be a property stamp of the imperial navy indicating Wilhelmshaven Werf. Is it possible to find out if it saw service on a vessel, and if so wich one?

Also, if there is only that one property stamp, would this indicate that the pistol was used in ww1, and after the war somehow found its way here to sweden?
If it had been used in ww2, would there have been a second property stamp?
I'm getting more and more intrigued by the gun and this site seems a true wellspring of kind knowledgeble people.

Lastly (for now anyways), why did they stamp two crown-over-m stamps instead of just one?

I hope this is the right place for these questions. Pictures can be viewed in the newcomers section where I was helped identifying it as a navy: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25928
Cheers
Conny, Sweden

John Sabato · 04-06-2011, 02:26 PM

My advice is to go right ahead and shoot and enjoy this old sailor... It's value as a Navy Luger was destroyed when the barrel and toggle were replaced with newer parts. The front sight is also not original and the rear sight has apparently been modified to use the square front sight blade. I'll bet she is a tack-driver! Enjoy!

FNorm · 04-06-2011, 05:09 PM

Conny,

Are there any marks/stampings at all on the barrel? Also what caliber is it? 9 or 7.65mm. It very well could have seen action in both wars.

Here's a description of one for sale that sounds a bit like yours:

DWM 1906 NAVY 1ST ISSUE ALTERED; 9 mm; 60% blue, 10% straw, fair bore, fair grips, 4'' barrel, Matching except the unmarked Navy magazine. Modified for issue in WW2 by sleeving and shortening the barrel to 4", changing out the rear toggle and removing the grip safety. East Sea WW2 era unit marked Ɔ.1643' on front grip strap. The chamber has been scrubbed and a date 1920 in small numbers stamped. This pistol saw use in both World Wars. Finish is worn overall as are the grips. The left grip has a small chip missing under the safety lever., s/n 67xxa,

FN

sheepherder · 04-06-2011, 05:17 PM

Front sight blade looks like a Finnish...Are there any markings on the barrel???

(I like Finnish front sights!)

If you desire an actual P08 front sight, I'll trade you...

Ugluk · 04-06-2011, 09:18 PM

It's a 9mm, and I can't find a single marking on the barrel. Only dings, scratches and possibly small toolmarks. Where would the date stamp be found if there is one?

Front sight is marked "+1", but that i guess is just a size indicator.
Since the gun shoots perfectly poa I think I'll give the trade a miss..

There's no marking on the rear toggle either and it looks a lot newer than the rest of the pistol and even the barrel.

If it had been reworked for continued service use, like in ww2, wouldn't there be proofs and stamps all over the replacement parts?

04-05-2011, 05:09 PM	#1
Ugluk User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	DWM crown-over-M, grip safety? Hi, new guy here I just yesterday got my P08, having bought it for the equivalent of $70 as a mismatched shooter. On closer inspection I can't find any obvious mismatches other than that the barrel is unmarked and the front sight looks odd. But then I don't know much about these pistols. I've been reading like crazy trying to figure out what it is I've got. Apart from a neat rather beat up gun with a broken ejector.. (It broke today on the range) I'm no collector, but I would still very much like to know how old it is and some of its history. Cheers Conny, Sweden Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2011, 05:31 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Connie, The frame appears to be a 1906 Imperial Navy. There are people here who specialize in those, so I'll let them comment. New ejectors are available. Look up Lugerdoc on this Forum. Some overall pics of the left, right and top would be nice. FN Last edited by FNorm; 04-05-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: add

04-05-2011, 06:06 PM	#7
Ugluk User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	FNorme, I'm happy to oblige. Norm, The safety is stamped "gesichert" under the lever. I can upload a pic of it if you like. It's not the slanting italics I've seen on other lugers pictured here on the forum. The magazine does not match, it's plastic bottomed. Edit: Email sent Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Ugluk; 04-05-2011 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Update

04-06-2011, 01:58 PM	#8
Ugluk User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Is it possible to trace a ww stamp? My 1906 navy is stamped ww7022 on the backstrap. I've snoped around and read that this would be a property stamp of the imperial navy indicating Wilhelmshaven Werf. Is it possible to find out if it saw service on a vessel, and if so wich one? Also, if there is only that one property stamp, would this indicate that the pistol was used in ww1, and after the war somehow found its way here to sweden? If it had been used in ww2, would there have been a second property stamp? I'm getting more and more intrigued by the gun and this site seems a true wellspring of kind knowledgeble people. Lastly (for now anyways), why did they stamp two crown-over-m stamps instead of just one? I hope this is the right place for these questions. Pictures can be viewed in the newcomers section where I was helped identifying it as a navy: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25928 Cheers Conny, Sweden

04-06-2011, 02:26 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	My advice is to go right ahead and shoot and enjoy this old sailor... It's value as a Navy Luger was destroyed when the barrel and toggle were replaced with newer parts. The front sight is also not original and the rear sight has apparently been modified to use the square front sight blade. I'll bet she is a tack-driver! Enjoy! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-05-2011, 05:35 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Conny, Welcome to the forum. Your "mismatched, shooter P08" is actually a very interesting and desirable Imperial Navy P04. True, it has a replacement 4" barrel and rear toggle, but still, it's an honest old sailor and it seems a shame to shoot it. Regards, Norm

04-05-2011, 05:41 PM	#5
Ugluk User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Norme, Not so good news then, as I really bought it to shoot it. I'll just have to be really careful with it. Thanks for your help and greetings both of you! Now I know what to study. Cheers

04-05-2011, 05:52 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Conny, Send me an email at normrab@comcast.net and I'll send you the link to the Navy List, which lists all known surviving Imperial Navy Lugers. In the meantime, please let me know if the safety has been altered (Gesichert in the upper position), and whether it has a Navy magazine. Regards, Norm

04-06-2011, 05:09 PM	#10
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Conny, Are there any marks/stampings at all on the barrel? Also what caliber is it? 9 or 7.65mm. It very well could have seen action in both wars. Here's a description of one for sale that sounds a bit like yours: DWM 1906 NAVY 1ST ISSUE ALTERED; 9 mm; 60% blue, 10% straw, fair bore, fair grips, 4'' barrel, Matching except the unmarked Navy magazine. Modified for issue in WW2 by sleeving and shortening the barrel to 4", changing out the rear toggle and removing the grip safety. East Sea WW2 era unit marked Ɔ.1643' on front grip strap. The chamber has been scrubbed and a date 1920 in small numbers stamped. This pistol saw use in both World Wars. Finish is worn overall as are the grips. The left grip has a small chip missing under the safety lever., s/n 67xxa, FN

04-06-2011, 05:17 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Front sight blade looks like a Finnish...Are there any markings on the barrel??? (I like Finnish front sights!) If you desire an actual P08 front sight, I'll trade you... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-06-2011, 09:18 PM	#12
Ugluk User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	It's a 9mm, and I can't find a single marking on the barrel. Only dings, scratches and possibly small toolmarks. Where would the date stamp be found if there is one? Front sight is marked "+1", but that i guess is just a size indicator. Since the gun shoots perfectly poa I think I'll give the trade a miss.. There's no marking on the rear toggle either and it looks a lot newer than the rest of the pistol and even the barrel. If it had been reworked for continued service use, like in ww2, wouldn't there be proofs and stamps all over the replacement parts?