G Mauser Luger on Auction Arms

drbuster · 08-02-2004, 12:01 AM

There is currently a very pristine G date on Auction Arms (#5954472). Upon questioning the seller, I was informed that the serial number had the suffix "i". Checking in Third Reich Lugers of Jan Still, one learns that over 54000 G types were made in 1935, the highest suffix being "f" (page 16). Any thoughts out there about this apparent abberation? After all, anyone interested in this piece might have to fork over $2K by the time the gavel comes down!

Frank · 08-02-2004, 10:49 AM

The serial number is 9440 (?). The Waffenamt Marks shown are for a late G-Date or 1936. The Proof Mark (Fine Tailed Eagle) is for a late G Date (D, E or F Block) or an early 1936 (F thru about L Block). The serial number is too high to be a G-Date F-Block, so if it's a legit G-Block it has to be either a D or E Block.

It's difficult for me to believe that anyone could mistake a "d" or "e" for an "i".

The color seems way too light, but that could be a photography glitch.

If I were bidding on this Luger I would insist on a photo of the script letter. If it isn't a "d" or "e", I would run away as fast as I could!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

drbuster · 08-03-2004, 09:22 AM

Frank, further contact with the seller brought forth the correction that the suffix is indeed the letter "d". The finish appears just too good to me (IMHO) not to be restored, but the seller insists it's not messed with but can one be certain?

Frank · 08-03-2004, 09:49 AM

Doc, if I may call you Doc, I said, the color appears to be too silvery. But that could be the photography. The photos do not show enough detail to look for the tell tale signs of refinishing. The photo of the top would indicate some polishing, but the whole photo is blurred, so it's tought to tell.

The Waffenampt and Proof Marks are lightly struck. That is pretty normal, but it also could be a sign of refinish.

The seller has a pretty good record, so if he knows Lugers, it may be legit. Note, if he knows Lugers, it's tough to mistake a "d" for an "i"!!!

Pete Ebbink · 08-03-2004, 10:44 AM

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5954472

Ron Smith · 08-03-2004, 11:01 AM

I agree with Frank. The finish just does'nt look right. The close up of the proofs, appears that it has been bead blasted.(frosted texture). This is a method of some what duplicating rust blue. Gives that satin look by using very fine glass beads.It will also slightly restore or deepen stampings,proofs,etc., that have been made shallow by polishing. I would be suspicious.

Ron

Pete Ebbink · 08-03-2004, 11:34 AM

Does anyone know what the stamping on the extractor is...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Frank · 08-03-2004, 01:07 PM

Ron & Pete, the photos are so blurred I can't tell. The extractor may have the S/N "40" but I don't know for sure.

Ron, bead blasting could have been used, but it's tought to tell!!

All I can say is BEWARE!!

Mauper · 08-03-2004, 04:32 PM

It has the look of cold blue.....

the gunman · 08-03-2004, 07:53 PM

Just for my 2cts AVIOD

drbuster · 08-03-2004, 09:13 PM

Appreciate all the input. Yes, Frank, you can call me "doc" anytime! By the way, the high bid is up to $1K.

RockinWR · 08-03-2004, 10:12 PM

Frank,
Way to flush that suffix out pardner!! Great analysis.

IMHO:
- I'm w/ Herb....too good!
- This is just one of those pistols you see today that begs to be disassembled into its 54 some pieces and studied at length with a high power glass, a flashlight, the nose, and every other trick known. All the while asking " How'd they do that so good" and "How'd it survive WWII and 68 years like this?"
- Little or no high edge wear, all blue barrel/muzzle band & sideplate island, soft frame & island edges, pictures which lack displaying the critical wear & tooling spots, soft(maybe blurry) chamber "G",...., where did Thor put his mark this time?
- Guess if Heer Weiss could make one this good under Army production quotas, Mauser would not need a commercial Banner division.
- Going to take all of three days to Inspect, a bundle of questions to the Seller, and lots of friends. But, if this is all original...Wow!
- Count me leery & in search of "halo's".
Respectfully,
Bob

drbuster · 08-03-2004, 11:52 PM

Thanks, Bob, I always respect your learned opinions, and I totally agree with what you said so well.

John Sabato · 08-09-2004, 09:42 AM

Bob, be sure to post a photo essay on the piece while you have it apart!... for future reference.

Thanks!

RockinWR · 08-09-2004, 10:09 PM

John & All,
* My apologies if the impression was given I was a bidder/buyer of this piece.

I do not go by the handle "wargunfan". Besides, my modest 5887c "G" example might get jealous if she knew I was Auctioning around for an upgrade and rust all over the safety deposit box!

* I hope with Analog's good feedback & an intense questioning/examination by Wargunfan, no unexpected surprises will occur when the shipment package is opened. Hopefully, the new owner will be cognitively & emotionally pleased. Then he or she can join our circle to convey a detailed analysis and more comprehensive/improved photos.

* While frequently "I'm known not to fully understand everything I definitively know about a subject", the hue of the sideplate alone makes me jittery. <img border="0" alt="[icon501]" title="" src="graemlins/icon501.gif" /> Fortunately we have been graced with Lloyd's contemporary "G" date S/N: 1772c post to compare. <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> Let's hope any disparity in S/N 9440d is in the "photographic" effect for Wargunfan's sake.
* Time will tell.
* Anyone know wargunfan??
Respectfully,
Bob

Frank · 08-10-2004, 10:09 AM

Well put Bob!! I too hope Wargunfan is pleased with the new addition!!

MauserLugers · 08-10-2004, 09:31 PM

Hi,
Read this thread with interest and then went to the pictures and looked. Really do not know how anyone could give a thumbs up or thumbs down on this piece from the pictures. Not enough detail to make any kind of an accurate judgement in my opinion. From what I could tell it looked like the straw was okay, and it looked like it has some blue wear. Looks to me like just poor detailed pictures. -- Bill

Hi Frank -- How ya been?

08-02-2004, 12:01 AM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	G Mauser Luger on Auction Arms There is currently a very pristine G date on Auction Arms (#5954472). Upon questioning the seller, I was informed that the serial number had the suffix "i". Checking in Third Reich Lugers of Jan Still, one learns that over 54000 G types were made in 1935, the highest suffix being "f" (page 16). Any thoughts out there about this apparent abberation? After all, anyone interested in this piece might have to fork over $2K by the time the gavel comes down!

08-03-2004, 11:01 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I agree with Frank. The finish just does'nt look right. The close up of the proofs, appears that it has been bead blasted.(frosted texture). This is a method of some what duplicating rust blue. Gives that satin look by using very fine glass beads.It will also slightly restore or deepen stampings,proofs,etc., that have been made shallow by polishing. I would be suspicious. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-09-2004, 09:42 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Bob, be sure to post a photo essay on the piece while you have it apart!... for future reference. Thanks! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-02-2004, 10:49 AM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	The serial number is 9440 (?). The Waffenamt Marks shown are for a late G-Date or 1936. The Proof Mark (Fine Tailed Eagle) is for a late G Date (D, E or F Block) or an early 1936 (F thru about L Block). The serial number is too high to be a G-Date F-Block, so if it's a legit G-Block it has to be either a D or E Block. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone could mistake a "d" or "e" for an "i". The color seems way too light, but that could be a photography glitch. If I were bidding on this Luger I would insist on a photo of the script letter. If it isn't a "d" or "e", I would run away as fast as I could! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

08-03-2004, 09:22 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Frank, further contact with the seller brought forth the correction that the suffix is indeed the letter "d". The finish appears just too good to me (IMHO) not to be restored, but the seller insists it's not messed with but can one be certain?

08-03-2004, 09:49 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Doc, if I may call you Doc, I said, the color appears to be too silvery. But that could be the photography. The photos do not show enough detail to look for the tell tale signs of refinishing. The photo of the top would indicate some polishing, but the whole photo is blurred, so it's tought to tell. The Waffenampt and Proof Marks are lightly struck. That is pretty normal, but it also could be a sign of refinish. The seller has a pretty good record, so if he knows Lugers, it may be legit. Note, if he knows Lugers, it's tough to mistake a "d" for an "i"!!!

08-03-2004, 10:44 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5954472

08-03-2004, 11:34 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Does anyone know what the stamping on the extractor is...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-03-2004, 01:07 PM	#8
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Ron & Pete, the photos are so blurred I can't tell. The extractor may have the S/N "40" but I don't know for sure. Ron, bead blasting could have been used, but it's tought to tell!! All I can say is BEWARE!!

08-03-2004, 04:32 PM	#9
Mauper User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Cape Cod, Ma. Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It has the look of cold blue.....

08-03-2004, 07:53 PM	#10
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Just for my 2cts AVIOD

08-03-2004, 09:13 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Appreciate all the input. Yes, Frank, you can call me "doc" anytime! By the way, the high bid is up to $1K.

08-03-2004, 10:12 PM	#12
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 278 Thanks: 109 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Frank, Way to flush that suffix out pardner!! Great analysis. IMHO: - I'm w/ Herb....too good! - This is just one of those pistols you see today that begs to be disassembled into its 54 some pieces and studied at length with a high power glass, a flashlight, the nose, and every other trick known. All the while asking " How'd they do that so good" and "How'd it survive WWII and 68 years like this?" - Little or no high edge wear, all blue barrel/muzzle band & sideplate island, soft frame & island edges, pictures which lack displaying the critical wear & tooling spots, soft(maybe blurry) chamber "G",...., where did Thor put his mark this time? - Guess if Heer Weiss could make one this good under Army production quotas, Mauser would not need a commercial Banner division. - Going to take all of three days to Inspect, a bundle of questions to the Seller, and lots of friends. But, if this is all original...Wow! - Count me leery & in search of "halo's". Respectfully, Bob

08-03-2004, 11:52 PM	#13
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks, Bob, I always respect your learned opinions, and I totally agree with what you said so well.

08-09-2004, 10:09 PM	#15
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 278 Thanks: 109 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	John & All, * My apologies if the impression was given I was a bidder/buyer of this piece. I do not go by the handle "wargunfan". Besides, my modest 5887c "G" example might get jealous if she knew I was Auctioning around for an upgrade and rust all over the safety deposit box! * I hope with Analog's good feedback & an intense questioning/examination by Wargunfan, no unexpected surprises will occur when the shipment package is opened. Hopefully, the new owner will be cognitively & emotionally pleased. Then he or she can join our circle to convey a detailed analysis and more comprehensive/improved photos. * While frequently "I'm known not to fully understand everything I definitively know about a subject", the hue of the sideplate alone makes me jittery. <img border="0" alt="[icon501]" title="" src="graemlins/icon501.gif" /> Fortunately we have been graced with Lloyd's contemporary "G" date S/N: 1772c post to compare. <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> Let's hope any disparity in S/N 9440d is in the "photographic" effect for Wargunfan's sake. * Time will tell. * Anyone know wargunfan?? Respectfully, Bob

08-10-2004, 10:09 AM	#16
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Well put Bob!! I too hope Wargunfan is pleased with the new addition!!

08-10-2004, 09:31 PM	#17
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi, Read this thread with interest and then went to the pictures and looked. Really do not know how anyone could give a thumbs up or thumbs down on this piece from the pictures. Not enough detail to make any kind of an accurate judgement in my opinion. From what I could tell it looked like the straw was okay, and it looked like it has some blue wear. Looks to me like just poor detailed pictures. -- Bill Hi Frank -- How ya been?