Stainless Steel Baby

Hugh · 12-09-2003, 12:06 AM

Here is the latest creation from Neil Keller of Kustom Ballistics. It is a stainless steel baby with grips by Hugh. To quote Neil: "This is the first one and the last one!"

John Sabato · 12-09-2003, 08:04 AM

VERY NICE!

From two years in manufacturing engineering I learned that working stainless steel can be a real bear!

Nice work - both of you!

How about a picture of the other side and the top Hugh?

Doubs · 12-09-2003, 01:46 PM

Kudos to Neil and Hugh for a great job. Outstanding!

Hugh · 12-10-2003, 06:37 PM

John,
Patience is a virtue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Be virtuious!

They are coming.

Steve Richards · 12-10-2003, 07:24 PM

I like it!

As a fan of the stainless guns, I think that it looks great. I also think it needs to go into the gallery of pictures.

John Sabato · 12-11-2003, 10:18 AM

Does anyone know if the original barrel was shortened or if a new barrel was fabricated just for this gun?

If the barrel was shortened, I would be interested to know how the front sight band was relocated to it's present position and how it was attached... since this type of operation is normally done with silver solder and I don't think that silver solder will stick to stainless...

...AND does the gun shoot to point of aim?

Lugerdoc · 12-11-2003, 10:28 AM

Hugh, That's the polish that I'd like on my Baby. John Martz calls his "satin white". Tom

Hub · 12-11-2003, 05:21 PM

The band is cut off, the barrel shortened to the desired length, the band is bored out and lightly pressed back on. A fixture was made to keep everthing in alignment while pressing. The band and barrel are tig welded at the crown area and then the crown cut with a form tool. Silver solder sometimes leaves a mess to clean up and may not take the finish. Same thing is done on the non stainless babies. All my secrets are out.
Neil

John Sabato · 12-11-2003, 05:26 PM

Nice work Neil... thanks for sharing.

Hub · 12-11-2003, 06:39 PM

John & any others, no secrets and I will be more than happy to answer any questions about the methods I use. But they are not for criticism as I realize there are many ways to skin a cat and I have the way(s) that work best for me. However, all and any suggestions are more than welcome.

Hugh · 12-13-2003, 12:42 AM

I have edited my first post to show the top and right side of Neil's stainless baby.

ViggoG · 12-14-2003, 01:38 AM

John S,
In the 1946 to 1977 era.
I seem to remember Working on many Stainless steel models that were silver soldered for research applications.
These models were typically of 18-8, 416, and 17-4 ph stainless steels.
Heat treatment was generally of no consideration as the use of these steels were chosen for corrosive resistance and other properties that were normal to non-heat treated applications.
Generally the flux was simply 20 mule team borax.
With the coming of the more advanced eutectic silver solder the demand for fluxes that were better applied to low temprature applications in the range of 350 to 1000 degrees developed.
I can see no reason why some of these low temp silver solders would not be applicable to the many grades of stainless steel, where there is consideration given to the precipitation hardening charactistics of these newer steels, and the application is kept within the realm of acceptablility.
ViggoG

AGE · 12-15-2003, 12:15 AM

I have no idea what SS material the Lugers are made of, but soldering might be more difficult than welding. Based on my mechanical engineering experience in a former life (when I had to work), the 300 series stainless steels could be easily TIG welded for the modifications if the SS Lugers were made of these materials.

Hub · 12-16-2003, 10:00 AM

Two things, There seems to be some confusion about my building the babies, I still will do the Lugers but no more SS mitchels other than reducing them in size and the owner completing them.
In my experience the 300 & 400 series of Stainles can be Tig welded with little difficulty, just keep everything as clean as possible as you would in silver soldering. Actually the older Lugers are sometimes more difficult to do as many of them have rust and yes steel is porous and they get oil contaminated after many years.

ViggoG · 12-21-2003, 02:33 AM

Back again,
It now comes to mind that many of the 1960 era Stainless Steels, 18-8, 17-4 ph, 300 and 400 series sainless steels were soft soldered with good bonding of surfaces using a special highly corrosive acid called "Ruby Flux".
added edit:
I believe that the modern Stainless Lugers are Investment Cast and I have no idea as to the type alloy steel that would be used.
ViggoG

Dean · 12-21-2003, 10:58 PM

I searched the web regarding the solder/weld issue. 416 Stainless does not weld very well due to the high sulfer content (added to make it "free machining").

I've decided to use solder to attach the frame extention on my stailess carbine project.

Viggo is correct, a strong flux is required.

12-09-2003, 12:06 AM	#1
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Stainless Steel Baby Here is the latest creation from Neil Keller of Kustom Ballistics. It is a stainless steel baby with grips by Hugh. To quote Neil: "This is the first one and the last one!" __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

12-09-2003, 08:04 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	VERY NICE! From two years in manufacturing engineering I learned that working stainless steel can be a real bear! Nice work - both of you! How about a picture of the other side and the top Hugh? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-10-2003, 06:37 PM	#4
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	John, Patience is a virtue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Be virtuious! They are coming. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

12-11-2003, 10:18 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Does anyone know if the original barrel was shortened or if a new barrel was fabricated just for this gun? If the barrel was shortened, I would be interested to know how the front sight band was relocated to it's present position and how it was attached... since this type of operation is normally done with silver solder and I don't think that silver solder will stick to stainless... ...AND does the gun shoot to point of aim? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-11-2003, 10:28 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Hugh, That's the polish that I'd like on my Baby. John Martz calls his "satin white". Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-09-2003, 01:46 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 770 Thanked 1,614 Times in 525 Posts	Kudos to Neil and Hugh for a great job. Outstanding!

12-10-2003, 07:24 PM	#5
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I like it! As a fan of the stainless guns, I think that it looks great. I also think it needs to go into the gallery of pictures.

12-11-2003, 05:21 PM	#8
Hub User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Decatur, IN Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	The band is cut off, the barrel shortened to the desired length, the band is bored out and lightly pressed back on. A fixture was made to keep everthing in alignment while pressing. The band and barrel are tig welded at the crown area and then the crown cut with a form tool. Silver solder sometimes leaves a mess to clean up and may not take the finish. Same thing is done on the non stainless babies. All my secrets are out. Neil

12-11-2003, 05:26 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Nice work Neil... thanks for sharing. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-11-2003, 06:39 PM	#10
Hub User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Decatur, IN Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	John & any others, no secrets and I will be more than happy to answer any questions about the methods I use. But they are not for criticism as I realize there are many ways to skin a cat and I have the way(s) that work best for me. However, all and any suggestions are more than welcome.

12-13-2003, 12:42 AM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I have edited my first post to show the top and right side of Neil's stainless baby. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

12-14-2003, 01:38 AM	#12
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John S, In the 1946 to 1977 era. I seem to remember Working on many Stainless steel models that were silver soldered for research applications. These models were typically of 18-8, 416, and 17-4 ph stainless steels. Heat treatment was generally of no consideration as the use of these steels were chosen for corrosive resistance and other properties that were normal to non-heat treated applications. Generally the flux was simply 20 mule team borax. With the coming of the more advanced eutectic silver solder the demand for fluxes that were better applied to low temprature applications in the range of 350 to 1000 degrees developed. I can see no reason why some of these low temp silver solders would not be applicable to the many grades of stainless steel, where there is consideration given to the precipitation hardening charactistics of these newer steels, and the application is kept within the realm of acceptablility. ViggoG

12-15-2003, 12:15 AM	#13
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have no idea what SS material the Lugers are made of, but soldering might be more difficult than welding. Based on my mechanical engineering experience in a former life (when I had to work), the 300 series stainless steels could be easily TIG welded for the modifications if the SS Lugers were made of these materials. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

12-16-2003, 10:00 AM	#14
Hub User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Decatur, IN Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Two things, There seems to be some confusion about my building the babies, I still will do the Lugers but no more SS mitchels other than reducing them in size and the owner completing them. In my experience the 300 & 400 series of Stainles can be Tig welded with little difficulty, just keep everything as clean as possible as you would in silver soldering. Actually the older Lugers are sometimes more difficult to do as many of them have rust and yes steel is porous and they get oil contaminated after many years.

12-21-2003, 02:33 AM	#15
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Back again, It now comes to mind that many of the 1960 era Stainless Steels, 18-8, 17-4 ph, 300 and 400 series sainless steels were soft soldered with good bonding of surfaces using a special highly corrosive acid called "Ruby Flux". added edit: I believe that the modern Stainless Lugers are Investment Cast and I have no idea as to the type alloy steel that would be used. ViggoG

12-21-2003, 10:58 PM	#16
Dean User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PA Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I searched the web regarding the solder/weld issue. 416 Stainless does not weld very well due to the high sulfer content (added to make it "free machining"). I've decided to use solder to attach the frame extention on my stailess carbine project. Viggo is correct, a strong flux is required. __________________ Carpe Diem, Parabellum