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Unread 03-09-2024, 03:09 AM   #1
Ari1915
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Default Grip marking on a DWM Artillery 1915

Good morning all,
would need some help on my 1915 DWM Artillery. My Ari is mismatched and it seems the pistol grip does not belong to it on the first place. On the grip I found the marking "26.Div. 41."

Does anybody know, what the unit 6.Div. 41. is?

Thank you
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Unread 03-13-2024, 03:49 AM   #2
klaus 3338
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The unit mark is not according the order about stamping handweapons dated 28. January 1909. It´s missing the kind of military like infantry or cavalry. But I think taht the meaning is " command of the 6. Infanty Division weapon 41
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Unread 03-13-2024, 11:43 AM   #3
Ari1915
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Hello Klaus,
thank you very much for your help on the marking.
Best
Sven
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Unread 03-14-2024, 03:36 AM   #4
klaus 3338
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Ich sehe gerade, dass wir Landleute sind; da kann ich mal schnell in die Tasten greifen...

Eine kurze Schluss Betrachtung: Die 6. Infanterie Division gehörte zum 3. Armeekorps und umfasste 4 brandenburgische Infanterie Regimenter und je 2 brandenburgische Kavallerie- und Feldartillerie Regimenter. Die 6. Division erlebte den Krieg 1916 vor Verdun und zumindest das der Division unterstehende Inf. Reg. 24 schrieb insofern Geschichte, da Hauptmann Haupt und Oberleutnant von Brandis das Fort Douaumont, die stärkste Befestigung im Gürtel um und vor Verdun, einnahm, wofür beiden der Orden des Pour le Merite verliehen wurde. In den 1920er Jahren wurde, mit dem damaligen Zeitgeist entsprechenden Phatos, an Original Kriegsschauplätzen und mit originalen Waffen diese entscheidenden Tage nachgespielt, wobei Hauptmann Haupt sich selber spielte; das mal so nebenbei.

Noch eine Bemerkung zur den Truppenstempeln auf den Handwaffen: Schon im D.V.E Nr. 185 wurde in den „Allgemeinen Bestimmungen“ zwischen Gebrauchswaffen, also Waffen, die etatmäßig an die Bedarfsträger der einzelnen Formationen verausgabt wurden und den Waffen, die für Formationen, die erst im Mobilmachungsfall aufgestellt wurden und bei den Artilleriedepots verblieben, insofern unterschieden, dass erstere bei den Truppenteilen von den dortigen Waffenmeistern ohne zusätzliches Entgelt zu stempeln waren, letztere aber blieben erst einmal ungestempelt.

Am 9. Februar 1912 hat das allgemeine Kriegsdepartment des preußischen Kriegsministeriums verfügt, dass nun auch im Mobilmachungsfall die Stempelung der Waffen nicht mehr notwendig sei und anstatt der bis dahin bei den Artillerie Depots geführten Stempelungslisten nun eine Schusswaffenliste zu führen sei.

Am 2 November 1916 gab das AKD noch eine Verfügung heraus, die nun auch die Gebrauchswaffen von der Vorschrift der Stempelung befreite.

Anscheinend hat man das bei der Truppe nicht verstanden oder es gab noch weitere spätere Verfügungen, die aber nicht mehr vorliegen, da es doch eine nicht zu übersehende Anzahl von 08 Pistolen gibt, die mit Truppenstempeln von Formationen versehen sind, die erst nach 1916 aufgestellt wurden und mit abweichenden Stempelungen versehen wurden, die sich also von der D.V.E. Nr. 185 deutlich unterschieden.

Zum Schluss noch mal eine kurze Übersicht, welche Stellen zum Truppenstempel auf Ihrer Waffe passen, es wurden mit diesen Truppenstempeln unter anderem folgende P08 versehen: die P08 des Kommandanten des Div. Stabsquartiers, 8 P08 für die Feldintendantur, 10 für das Divisions- Proviantamt, 3 für Divisionsärzte, 2 für Feldjustizbeamte, 4 für Feld Div. Geistlichen und 6 für die Feldpostexpedition.
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Unread 03-14-2024, 05:43 AM   #5
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I just see that we are country people; I can quickly reach for the keys...

A brief final consideration: The 6th Infantry Division belonged to the 3rd Army Corps and comprised 4 Brandenburg infantry regiments and 2 Brandenburg cavalry and field artillery regiments each. The 6th Division experienced the war in 1916 in front of Verdun and at least the Inf. Reg. 24, which was subordinate to the division, made history in that Hauptmann Haupt and Oberleutnant von Brandis took Fort Douaumont, the strongest fortification in the belt around and in front of Verdun, for which both was awarded the Order of Pour le Merite. In the 1920s, these decisive days were re-enacted in original theaters of war and with original weapons, with Phatos corresponding to the spirit of the time, with Captain Haupt playing himself; just by the way.

Another comment about the troop stamps on the hand weapons: Already in D.V.E No. 185, the “General Provisions” made a distinction between utility weapons, i.e. weapons that were regularly issued to those in need of the individual formations, and the weapons that were for formations that were only released in the Mobilization case were drawn up and remained at the artillery depots, in that the former had to be stamped by the armorers there in the troop units without additional payment, but the latter remained unstamped for the time being.

On February 9, 1912, the General War Department of the Prussian War Ministry decreed that the stamping of weapons was no longer necessary in the event of mobilization and that a firearms list should now be kept instead of the stamping lists that had previously been kept at the artillery depots.

On November 2, 1916, the AKD issued a decree that now also exempted utility weapons from the requirement for stamping.

Apparently the troops didn't understand this or there were other later orders that are no longer available, as there are a significant number of 08 pistols that have troop stamps from formations that were only formed after 1916 and were provided with different stamps, which were different from the D.V.E. No. 185 clearly differentiated.

Finally, a brief overview of which places match the troop stamp on your weapon. The following P08s, among others, were provided with these troop stamps: the P08 of the commander of the Div. Staff quarters, 8 P08 for the field commander, 10 for the divisional provisions office, 3 for divisional doctors, 2 for field justice officers, 4 for field div. Clergy and 6 for the field post expedition.
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Unread 03-14-2024, 05:44 AM   #6
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Translation (I think best I can do)
for those that need some help
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Unread 03-14-2024, 12:14 PM   #7
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Hallo Klaus,
vielen Dank für Deine äußerst ausführliche und fachlich sehr interessante Erläuterung des Sachverhaltes. Deine profunde Kenntnis auf diesem Gebiet hat mich wirklich beeindruckt.
Deine Ausführung hat mir enorm weitergeholfen, nochmals vielen Dank dafür.
Gruß
Sven


Translation

Hello Klaus,
I would like to sincerely thank you for your extremely detailed and professionally very interesting explanation of the matter. Your profound knowledge in this field has truly impressed me. Your support has helped me tremendously, once again, thank you very much for that.
Best
Sven
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