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Unread 05-07-2019, 05:26 PM   #1
Johnny Conroe
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Question 1911 Erfurt question...

I recently picked up a 1911 at the LGS with some interesting unit markings. After digging around online and reading my Still book, I cannot quiet figure out what they mean. Can any of you guys shed some light on these markings, please?

Thanks in advance.


Link to pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/zkTnBweaYcvvCiVz7
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Unread 05-07-2019, 06:58 PM   #2
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Hi Johnny,
Welcome to the forum! I'm not familiar with that unit mark, but since your gun has seen Weimar period police service, as evident from the Sear and Magazine safeties (since disabled) it may well be a Police marking. I'm sure someone will be along soon who knows Police markings.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 08:11 PM   #3
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Thank you, Norm.

I've always been a lurker more than anything else, but this new piece has left me puzzled.

Puzzled enough to create an account and start posting on the forums. Thanks for having me!


Cheers,

Austin
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Unread 05-07-2019, 09:02 PM   #4
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Welcome Johnny.
You will get more folks to look at your pictures if you post them on the server here.
Many of us do not go to offsite hosting services for various reasons.

Eventually the pictures will likely disappear and any answers given will be meaningless without the pictures.
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Unread 05-07-2019, 09:38 PM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestion, Don.

I'll post some pictures on here. Please let me know if they view-able on your end.

Here goes nothing:









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Unread 05-08-2019, 06:44 AM   #6
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I’m interested in this too. I have a police 1911 Erfurt with the unit mark of O.N.1 that seems to be unknown.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 09:07 AM   #7
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The only grip strap marking that I know of starting with an O. xxx are Naval eastern (Ost) fleet. Perhaps some digging in Gortz & Walter's "The Navy Luger" can provide some answers. TH
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Unread 05-08-2019, 09:26 AM   #8
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You fellows need to increase the size of your library!

O. Hi. = Ordnungpolizei of Hidesheim
The last number is the weapon number. See Don Maus' book, History Writ in Steel.

Johnny,
thanks for posting the pictures. That is a very good looking luger, very early Erfurt taken into Weimar police service. Note it has the sear safety, and the magazine safety which has been rendered inoperable. Both are key features of "police" lugers.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 09:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_in_VA View Post
Im interested in this too. I have a police 1911 Erfurt with the unit mark of O.N.1 that seems to be unknown.
Bill,
that format screams "police" marking, especially since it must have police features if you call it a "police luger".

The O. is almost certainly also "Ordnungspolizei", and is in the 1922 marking style. I spent some time looking for a candidate for both "K" and "N" which are not firmly connected to cities or other jurisdictions.

I finally found some reference to "K" as likely being Kiel in some instances and Koeslin in others.

I have not found a known candidate for "N", but there are several
potential candidates- perhaps: Neisse or Neustadt ?

German police organizations underwent several nomenclature changes and the Ordnungspolizei was a short lived designation.

I can't attempt to explain, as there are several books written about the German police of that era and it is more than a little involved.

Maybe Don Maus will see this thread and chime in, he wrote the book! If you don't have a copy of History Writ in Steel- it is a great book and full of info on Germany in the era and markings found on pistols.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 09:44 AM   #10
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Hi Don,
Trust me, I have ALL the books, at least those written in English, but since I have no interest in Police Lugers I left the interpretation of that unit mark to someone who does.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 12:13 PM   #11
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When you said LGS, were you referring to the Lakeland Gun Show in Fl.? If so, I was at that show and I think I saw your Luger. If it was, I think the dealer also had a Luger carbine. I did not ask the price. In any case, one thing I know now, though I am learning more about Lugers, I was way in over my head when it came to buying one at the show.Thought the prices were on the high side. I had $2,000 on me and I think the cheapest Luger I saw was $1,700 and I was not impressed by it. Most other looked to be $2,400 and up to $11,000. I hope at my next gun show, it would be nice to go with someone that truly knows Lugers and their values.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 12:34 PM   #12
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I took LGS to mean "local gun shop". Let's see which it is...
dju
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Unread 05-08-2019, 01:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norme View Post
Hi Don,
Trust me, I have ALL the books, at least those written in English, but since I have no interest in Police Lugers I left the interpretation of that unit mark to someone who does.
Norm
That's ok Norm, I didn't mean to be mean.

I'm happy you don't have any interest in police lugers, less
competition that way.

After all, you are the Navy guy.
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Unread 05-08-2019, 10:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
You fellows need to increase the size of your library!

O. Hi. = Ordnungpolizei of Hidesheim
The last number is the weapon number. See Don Maus' book, History Writ in Steel.

Johnny,
thanks for posting the pictures. That is a very good looking luger, very early Erfurt taken into Weimar police service. Note it has the sear safety, and the magazine safety which has been rendered inoperable. Both are key features of "police" lugers.

I really appreciate the information and I also just snagged the last copy of that book on Prime!

Thanks for the help, sir!
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Unread 05-08-2019, 10:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DavidJayUden View Post
I took LGS to mean "local gun shop". Let's see which it is...
dju
I definitely meant local gun shop. My acronym use is more in line with the CMP forums, but I'm up for learning the ropes on here too!
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Unread 05-08-2019, 10:41 PM   #16
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I know it’s off topic but... I like that holster! It appears to be a heavily modified 1911 holster maybe?
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Unread 05-08-2019, 11:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2152 View Post
I know its off topic but... I like that holster! It appears to be a heavily modified 1911 holster maybe?
Likewise. Its certainly an intriguing piece with some unique features. I too think its a heavily moded 1911 or .38 Navy revolver holster. Surly its a vet bring back of some kind, but well never know the provenance.
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Unread 05-09-2019, 08:26 AM   #18
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We see those from time to time, and as I recall the sort-of consensus seems to be that they are non-military issue and probably made after the war.
dju
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Unread 05-09-2019, 02:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2152 View Post
I know its off topic but... I like that holster! It appears to be a heavily modified 1911 holster maybe?
Not likely a modified 1911, but made for or bought by a GI.

Similar holsters for German guns were made before the war in Germany, so it may be one of those too. They were made for lugers and smaller automatics.

Similar ones have been posted several times.
Someone may have saved a link, or you might find them by searching for shoulder holster.
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Unread 05-11-2019, 07:53 AM   #20
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My copy of History Writ in Steel was delivered yesterday. Wow! This book is incredible.

Thanks again for the suggestion.
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