Whats it worth? My 1st Luger (rig) purchase - Page 3

Mauser George · 07-05-2010, 10:05 PM

SIEGER:

Dear Mauser George:

Let me answer you respectfully.
“That’s the only way to do it”

To each his own!
“Absolutely”

Believe it or not, professional opinions often differ. “
Yes, they certainly do. Many times it is due to that fact that some people simply repeat what they have heard”

If you feel the Luger in question is 100% correct, feel free to buy one just like it in the future, but don't expect everyone with almost 40 years of experience to agree with you.
“I am not asking you, nor do I expect anyone with almost 40 years of experience to agree with me or anything I said in regards to this posting”

From the photos presented here, I have great doubts regarding the correctness of the grips shown. This, however, is my opinion, which, quite obviously, you do not share.
“Yes sir, you are 100% correct in your thinking in this regard”

By the way, there are some other elements of the grips that make me doubt their correctness, but I'll not share these here, for fear of causing hard feelings, or stepping on someone else's feet.
“That’s very considerate of you”

Happy trails to you
“Most days are happy and full of adventure, thanks”

Sieger

PS: Are we on the same page in regards to what causes the left Luger grip to chip by the safety? Or is it still your feeling as you described as an air tight fit is what often chips the grip, yielding the “million dollar chip” often seen on well used Lugers. I ask as you neglected to address this concern and I was just wondering what your feeling is in this regard. Possibly I am mistaken.

George

bijj62 · 07-05-2010, 10:12 PM

Mauser George: You seem to be a level headed/reasonable member...In your opinion what would be the value of my rig? I'd like to know if I got a "good" deal or not. Thanks for your input!

Mauser George · 07-05-2010, 11:08 PM

Jason:

You are more than welcome. Please know I do not consider myself an expert on Lugers nor any other type of firearm. I own a few Lugers and various other German WW1 & WW11 handguns and like many of us, have a great deal to learn. I do however have an excellent library on the subject.

Everyone may have a difference of option and that is fine. Everyone on the board is more than willing to lend a helping hand. Many forum members really know their stuff while a few others want you to believe they do or this is the way it seems to me!

I seldom give advice as there are far more knowledgeable folks on the forum that are light years ahead of myself in the area of collecting.

Thanks for you complement as being level headed/reasonable member. I am not the person to ask if you got a good deal! Reason being is that I pretty much only collect what comes my way at an affordable price.

Your 1941 Luger rig looks very nice. It has two matching magazines which is not often seen and a nice holster. What it may be worth all depends who is interested in purchasing it. For sake of argument, I believe it’s value would be somewhere around $4000.00 give or take if you found the right buyer. If you are happy with what you paid that’s all that matters. Once you do some research and build a library, you will be in a better position when you purchase your second Luger!

The best of luck.

George

Sieger · 07-05-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bijj62

Mauser George: You seem to be a level headed/reasonable member...In your opinion what would be the value of my rig? I'd like to know if I got a "good" deal or not. Thanks for your input!

Hi:

Simply stated, something is worth what someone else will pay you for it. Just who that someone is will often determine what he or she is willing to pay for just about anything.

Sieger

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Sieger:

PS: Are we on the same page in regards to what causes the left Luger grip to chip by the safety? Or is it still your feeling as you described as an air tight fit is what often chips the grip, yielding the “million dollar chip” often seen on well used Lugers. I ask as you neglected to address this concern and I was just wondering what your feeling is in this regard. Possibly I am mistaken.

George

Dear George:

If I'm reading you correctly, you believe that the chip occurs only when the grips are removed.

It would be helpful if you would get a copy of the original DWM blueprint of the grip. An ability to read Geman would also be helpful here.

The grip fit at the back of the safety to the frame is a tight fit. Wood may shrink, but it may also expand through the application of oil, water or other moisture. When this occurs, a pressure point will be created at that very critical point. The pressure has to be relieved, one way or another, and the wood simply gives way here through a crack.

I hope that is an adequate answer.

Sieger

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 06:25 AM

Sieger:

Reading me correctly is not at all difficult as all that is required is the ability to read and understand what is written. Sorry, I do not have access to an original DWM blueprint nor do I have the ability to read, write or speak German. What you need is a good spell checker!

All your Mumbo-Jumbo is just going in circles. You do have a unique ability of putting a spin on your messages that seem to go round and round and go nowhere yet always saying something different.

What is it going to be next, the walnut was not dried correctly and if I could read German I would understand the German wood drying process?

First it was air tight fit, second you claim it is expansion & contraction due to water or other moisture.

Stay cool and have a nice day in the big city of 8 million!

George

PS: Please drop the "Dear" in your posting as its meaning is not relevant here!

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Sieger:

Reading me correctly is not at all difficult as all that is required is the ability to read and understand what is written. Sorry, I do not have access to an original DWM blueprint nor do I have the ability to read, write or speak German. What you need is a good spell checker!

All your Mumbo-Jumbo is just going in circles. You do have a unique ability of putting a spin on your messages that seem to go round and round and go nowhere yet always saying something different.

What is it going to be next, the walnut was not dried correctly and if I could read German I would understand the German wood drying process?

First it was air tight fit, second you claim it is expansion & contraction due to water or other moisture.

Stay cool and have a nice day in the big city of 8 million!

George

PS: Please drop the "Dear" in your posting as its meaning is not relevant here!

Lieber Mauser Georg:

Mach deinen Scheiss alleine, du Klugscheisser!

Sieger

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2010, 07:55 AM

I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time?
dju

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time?
dju

Dear David:

I really don't think that drying is the issue, as a dry grip would grow farther away from the frame, not closer to it.

One thing is for sure. You should be very careful when removing that grip!

Sieger

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 08:06 AM

Sieger:

I, guess, then, not!

In this case, "LESS IN MORE".

Regards,

George

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 08:12 AM

DJU:

Have you ever heard of the: “Air Tight Fit” theory, it is posted above.

Sorry, I just could not resist!

George

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 08:23 AM

Sieger:

It’s been fun, however I need to get back to work.

Have a nice day and I look forward to reading your informative postings.

George

bijj62 · 07-06-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Lieber Mauser Georg:

Mach deinen Scheiss alleine, du Klugscheisser!

Sieger

"do your own $hit, you smart a$$e$!" Why would you say that kind of thing Sieger?

tau-delt · 07-06-2010, 11:30 AM

Jason.... Getting back to your luger..... Since you are getting very good at pictures, I would appreciate a shot of the inside of the side plate. What I am looking for it the number that should be stamped inside.

IMO your gun is right as rain based on what I can see. Great find with 2 matching mags.

Bluebook value is about $4000 on the gun and the holster is worth another $300 or more.

These are "retail" numbers.

All you need is a E/655 tool to complete the rig........

bijj62 · 07-06-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tau-delt

Jason.... Getting back to your luger..... Since you are getting very good at pictures, I would appreciate a shot of the inside of the sideplate. What I am looking for it the number that should be stamped inside.

IMO your gun is right as rain based on what I can see. Great find with 2 matching mags.

Bluebook value is about $4000 on the gun and the holster is worth another $300 or more.

These are "retail" numbers.

All you need is a E/655 tool to complete the rig........

Thanks Tau-delt!, I will try to post a nice clear picture of the backside of the sideplate. If I remember correctly the number 75 is stamped on it, but I'll check. The tool in my holster almost looks like it was stamped E/655 but it is worn off some. Anyway thank you for the informaation and check back for the new pics.

tau-delt · 07-06-2010, 12:06 PM

Jason... Take a pic of the tool as well if you have the time......

bijj62 · 07-06-2010, 12:23 PM

The number 75 is stamped on the inside of sideplate. I couldnt get a perfect pic but I think you'll be able to see it. Thanks for taking the time to look at my Luger!!!

tau-delt · 07-06-2010, 01:30 PM

Jason.... 75 is the number you would want to see inside. From roughly 1939 forward Mauser stamped a number one more than the first two digits of the full serial number on the inside of the side plate on most of their military production.

IMO that it the original side plate for the gun.

Thanks for posting. The goal here and on other forums is to learn as we go. Every new gun is part of the process.

I would be pleased to have yours in my collection.

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bijj62

"do your own $hit, you smart a$$e$!" Why would you say that kind of thing Sieger?

Your's is a literal translation, but not an historically accurate one.

The first part of the sentence is a quote from the King of Saxony upon his forced abdication in 1918. A better translation would be..."Now your free to do your "own thing". A Klugscheisser is better translated as a "know it all", but in a town clown sort of way.

Given the tone of Mr. George's remarks to me, arrogant and condescending, I think I was quite civilized with him.

Sieger

deepdarkwoodsman · 07-06-2010, 04:25 PM

Hello guys.

I don't post often, but I follow the new postings on almost a daily basis. I would like to thank everyone for a most entertaining thread. It has been a while since I have been this eager to log on and check out the new postings.

Jason, it is difficult to say with absolute certainty from pictures, but I believe that your gun is correct and worth in the neighborhood of $3,500 to $4,000. With that being said, two-matched-magazine rigs always make me a little nervous, and it is impossible to tell from the pictures if the magazines are original to your gun. With all the scrutiny your gun has received, frankly I am surprised that no-one has attacked the magazines yet.

Magazines are the most tinkered-with part of these guns, and more people get burned (myself included) with matched magazines that with any other luger alteration or enhancement. I can assure you that there are many more lugers with matching magazines now than there were at the end of WWII. I have seen many, many lugers with magazines that have had their numbers ground or scrubbed and then re-numbered to match the gun they are currently paired with. Nothing adds value to a luger faster than adding a matched magazine to the deal. A very wise collector once told me to invest in a pair of digital calipers. When measuring the round knobs of the magazine bottoms, the measurements must be the same from top-to-bottom, and side-to-side. If the top to bottom reading is off by as little as 1/2 mm, be very careful.

Thanks for reading.

Doug

07-05-2010, 11:08 PM	#43
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Jason: You are more than welcome. Please know I do not consider myself an expert on Lugers nor any other type of firearm. I own a few Lugers and various other German WW1 & WW11 handguns and like many of us, have a great deal to learn. I do however have an excellent library on the subject. Everyone may have a difference of option and that is fine. Everyone on the board is more than willing to lend a helping hand. Many forum members really know their stuff while a few others want you to believe they do or this is the way it seems to me! I seldom give advice as there are far more knowledgeable folks on the forum that are light years ahead of myself in the area of collecting. Thanks for you complement as being level headed/reasonable member. I am not the person to ask if you got a good deal! Reason being is that I pretty much only collect what comes my way at an affordable price. Your 1941 Luger rig looks very nice. It has two matching magazines which is not often seen and a nice holster. What it may be worth all depends who is interested in purchasing it. For sake of argument, I believe it’s value would be somewhere around $4000.00 give or take if you found the right buyer. If you are happy with what you paid that’s all that matters. Once you do some research and build a library, you will be in a better position when you purchase your second Luger! The best of luck. George Last edited by Mauser George; 07-06-2010 at 08:40 AM.

07-06-2010, 06:25 AM	#46
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sieger: Reading me correctly is not at all difficult as all that is required is the ability to read and understand what is written. Sorry, I do not have access to an original DWM blueprint nor do I have the ability to read, write or speak German. What you need is a good spell checker! All your Mumbo-Jumbo is just going in circles. You do have a unique ability of putting a spin on your messages that seem to go round and round and go nowhere yet always saying something different. What is it going to be next, the walnut was not dried correctly and if I could read German I would understand the German wood drying process? First it was air tight fit, second you claim it is expansion & contraction due to water or other moisture. Stay cool and have a nice day in the big city of 8 million! George PS: Please drop the "Dear" in your posting as its meaning is not relevant here! Last edited by Mauser George; 07-06-2010 at 07:35 AM.

07-06-2010, 11:30 AM	#54
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Jason.... Getting back to your luger..... Since you are getting very good at pictures, I would appreciate a shot of the inside of the side plate. What I am looking for it the number that should be stamped inside. IMO your gun is right as rain based on what I can see. Great find with 2 matching mags. Bluebook value is about $4000 on the gun and the holster is worth another $300 or more. These are "retail" numbers. All you need is a E/655 tool to complete the rig........ __________________ dave Last edited by tau-delt; 07-06-2010 at 01:36 PM.

07-06-2010, 12:06 PM	#56
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Jason... Take a pic of the tool as well if you have the time...... __________________ dave

07-06-2010, 12:23 PM	#57
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The number 75 is stamped on the inside of sideplate. I couldnt get a perfect pic but I think you'll be able to see it. Thanks for taking the time to look at my Luger!!! Attached Thumbnails

07-05-2010, 10:05 PM	#41
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	SIEGER: Dear Mauser George: Let me answer you respectfully. “That’s the only way to do it” To each his own! “Absolutely” Believe it or not, professional opinions often differ. “ Yes, they certainly do. Many times it is due to that fact that some people simply repeat what they have heard” If you feel the Luger in question is 100% correct, feel free to buy one just like it in the future, but don't expect everyone with almost 40 years of experience to agree with you. “I am not asking you, nor do I expect anyone with almost 40 years of experience to agree with me or anything I said in regards to this posting” From the photos presented here, I have great doubts regarding the correctness of the grips shown. This, however, is my opinion, which, quite obviously, you do not share. “Yes sir, you are 100% correct in your thinking in this regard” By the way, there are some other elements of the grips that make me doubt their correctness, but I'll not share these here, for fear of causing hard feelings, or stepping on someone else's feet. “That’s very considerate of you” Happy trails to you “Most days are happy and full of adventure, thanks” Sieger PS: Are we on the same page in regards to what causes the left Luger grip to chip by the safety? Or is it still your feeling as you described as an air tight fit is what often chips the grip, yielding the “million dollar chip” often seen on well used Lugers. I ask as you neglected to address this concern and I was just wondering what your feeling is in this regard. Possibly I am mistaken. George

07-05-2010, 10:12 PM	#42
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser George: You seem to be a level headed/reasonable member...In your opinion what would be the value of my rig? I'd like to know if I got a "good" deal or not. Thanks for your input!

07-06-2010, 07:55 AM	#48
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time? dju

07-06-2010, 08:06 AM	#50
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sieger: I, guess, then, not! In this case, "LESS IN MORE". Regards, George

07-06-2010, 08:12 AM	#51
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	DJU: Have you ever heard of the: “Air Tight Fit” theory, it is posted above. Sorry, I just could not resist! George

07-06-2010, 08:23 AM	#52
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sieger: It’s been fun, however I need to get back to work. Have a nice day and I look forward to reading your informative postings. George

07-06-2010, 01:30 PM	#58
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Jason.... 75 is the number you would want to see inside. From roughly 1939 forward Mauser stamped a number one more than the first two digits of the full serial number on the inside of the side plate on most of their military production. IMO that it the original side plate for the gun. Thanks for posting. The goal here and on other forums is to learn as we go. Every new gun is part of the process. I would be pleased to have yours in my collection. __________________ dave

07-06-2010, 04:25 PM	#60
deepdarkwoodsman User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post	Hello guys. I don't post often, but I follow the new postings on almost a daily basis. I would like to thank everyone for a most entertaining thread. It has been a while since I have been this eager to log on and check out the new postings. Jason, it is difficult to say with absolute certainty from pictures, but I believe that your gun is correct and worth in the neighborhood of $3,500 to $4,000. With that being said, two-matched-magazine rigs always make me a little nervous, and it is impossible to tell from the pictures if the magazines are original to your gun. With all the scrutiny your gun has received, frankly I am surprised that no-one has attacked the magazines yet. Magazines are the most tinkered-with part of these guns, and more people get burned (myself included) with matched magazines that with any other luger alteration or enhancement. I can assure you that there are many more lugers with matching magazines now than there were at the end of WWII. I have seen many, many lugers with magazines that have had their numbers ground or scrubbed and then re-numbered to match the gun they are currently paired with. Nothing adds value to a luger faster than adding a matched magazine to the deal. A very wise collector once told me to invest in a pair of digital calipers. When measuring the round knobs of the magazine bottoms, the measurements must be the same from top-to-bottom, and side-to-side. If the top to bottom reading is off by as little as 1/2 mm, be very careful. Thanks for reading. Doug