Thinking about buying a Luger online....

[Malcolm P.]

Does Phoenix Investment Arms have a good reputation?

[Tomathvl]

Not with me! IMO they are snake oil salesmen. They don't describe the pieces accurately and the photos are staged to not show actual condition. They didn't honor the 3 day policy when the gun didn't look as described and pictured. The answer was they're not in business to send guns around the country for folks to look at. READ the small print literally, they mean what they say. I'd advise going with FGS, Doug Smith is customer friendly. Simpson's also has a good reputation. Other folks can recommend others. The term Caveat Emptor was meant for Phoenix Arms. Tom

[marine kabar]

If FGS has Lugers for sale I'd recommend them. I did a magazine swap with Ken Clark w/FGS a few months ago and he did me right.

[pipeman45]

Right here isn't a bad place to pick up a nice one. That is if you can get someone to let go of one!

[John Sabato]

Fine Lugers are frequently found right here in the free classifieds...

Put your "wants" in the wanted forum when you decide exactly what kind of Luger you want, and chances are, one of the collectors who is a member may be upgrading his collection and need to part with one...

But just as you deal with internet auction sites, make sure you understand agree to the terms before the purchase...

[marine kabar]

Over the years I've found that buying from other collectors is often, but not always, a good way to add to your collection. But the same common sense rules apply whether it's on a forum such as this one or on ebay or a gunshow. Good communications between buyer and seller is a MUST. And never feel like you can't ask a lot of questions. Rule #1 for me has always been if I detect that a potential seller is purposely being vague or evasive I walk away. And my collecting is primarily edged weapons where the dollar value is much lower than with firearms. So I'd imagine the standard of caution would have to be that much higher with guns.

[Pete Ebbink]

Malcolm,

The outfit you asked about uses the names "skitowe" and more recently "jagerbrief" on the various web gun sites...

[skitowe]

Mr. Beasley is 100% correct. If you want to play with big boy toys you have to read the fine print. The rules are: ask questions and get more pictures to resolve issues, (we furnish copious photographs and honor special requests) and then you make your decision within three days of taking possession of the gun. To go at risk of shipping a rare Luger for someone to play with or remove parts is intolerable.

It is naive to assume that Luger dealers donâ??t know each other, nor recognize those lacking in judgment or prudence. Since anyone can say anything it is always necessary to suffer the fools.

Occasionally someone needs to remind this forum that the www means world wide web and anyone can read the diatribes and pejorative comments by the participants, even the maligned. Perhaps even the moderators should recognize when comments become virulent and not just bob their heads and abet the insult. However that implies fortitude.

Phoenix Investment Arms

[Ron Smith]

Thomas,

I would tend to agree . However a three day inspection period implies honesty. And as far as anyone reading the forum. It is open for public scrutiny as well as debate. Name calling on either side accomplishes nothing.

You are not willing to allow a three day inspection on the grounds that you assume someone will rip you off. Yet you expect any and everyone to trust you. Just how does that work. Trust is a two way situation. If no trust is given, then no trust should be expected.

This is purely my opinion. And in no way should involve the administrator nor moderators of this forum. It is an open forum and I as a member am entitled to such.

Have a nice day, Ron

[broomhandle]

Hello All,

Noted the messages and find the replys interesting.

I looked for about 8-9 months before I found one .
I thank my lucky stars ,that one of the advance collectors here had time to spend with me at a show . THANKS again George A.

Please deal with people that have a good track record.

Be safe,
broomhandle- a novice collector

[DougT]

Dear Thomas,

I really don't think you're going to have to worry about getting very much business from anyone who reads this forum--if Tomathvl's post didn't cook it for Phoenix Investment Arms, your's certainly did.
DougT

[Pete Ebbink]

Rather than mess with a vendor whose return policy is so obtuse, written by too many lawyers, and totally subjective from the seller's end only, why not turn to Dealers that have true 3-day, no-questions-asked, return policy.

Not to mention the PIA luger photos, text of the gun descriptions, and even their "legal" policy statements are "copy protected" on their web site so a buyer cannot even download that stuff off the web site, as part of the documentation-trail, before one sends in their money...

WHY BOTHER...???

Cannot say it better than the Dealers, themselves, that have done well by their customers for years. Here are some of their return-policy statements :


Joe Salter : http://www.joesalter.com/

â??The cornerstone of our business will always remain the same. Our stated policy is to provide a 100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEE, on everything that we sell. If you are not fully satisfied with your purchase, you simply contact us to return the item for a full no questions asked refund. My philosophy is to give conservative descriptions and show up to 35 pictures per item. We want to show and accurately describe every detail on everything that we sell. We do not want you to get a surprise when you open the box. If you are not satisfied, you will not come back â??

Bob & Brad Simpson : http://www.simpsonltd.com/

â?? GUARANTEE: Money will be cheerfully refunded on any item you are not happy with, (EXCEPT LAYAWAYS) but please call before returning an item. Returns must be made within 3 DAYS OF YOUR RECEIVING THEM and they must be in the same condition as received. Sorry but there is no guarantee on firing condition of any item. â??

Randy Bessler : http://www.collectorfirearms.us/

â?? GUARANTEE: Complete satisfaction is assured. Full 3 day inspection period. A no argument immediate refund when returned in the same condition as in when shipped. Please call if there is to be a return. Returns must be made within 3 days of receipt. Layaway Sales are returnable for merchandise credit only. All items are sold as collector items only intended for non-operational use. No liability is assumed for the use of any item sold. All firearms and any related items should be checked and certified by a licensed gunsmith if to be used for anything other than non-operational purposes. â??

Regards,

Pete...

[Scott H.]

Excellent post Pete! Any reputable dealer is not afraid to have a clear and easy to understand three day return policy. Of the dealers that you mentioned I have only purchased from Bob Simpson. The Luger that I purchased was from a verbal description by Brad. He described the Luger in great detail making note of both its assets and flaws. His description was very accurate and I had no need to use the return policy, but I knew it was there if I needed it. In the collectible firearms business reputation is everything. A dealers reputation spreads very quickly, either good or bad. I stay clear of any dealer that has a bad reputation where others have been burned.

[jamese]

Not only dealers, but individuals should have a 3 day return policy
I have let more than a few deals pass because the individual would not allow a 3-day inspection.

One gentleman from Arizona said that his state did not allow such returns.

If a seller has nothing to hide and is not attempting to mis-lead a buyer, than any honest straight forward seller will allow the inspection and return policy.

If they donâ??t then as far as Iâ??m concerned there is nothing to discuss with that seller.

Jim

[Captain Emo]

Beware of online deals. Get many photos. Get everything in writing. Save your emails. I have purchased and sold many firearms and parts online. I have only had one unpleasant experience, but saving the seller's exagerated descriptions of the item saved the day. All my money was refunded. He still made out with a questionable insurance claim.

[Edward Tinker]

Well, not to disagree, but I have bought one pistol from him, was as described and he treated me fairly. I have actually sold him 3 or 4 the last couple of months and he was fair and friendly.


Ed

[Jack Lawman]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
Well, not to disagree, but I have bought one pistol from him, was as described and he treated me fairly. I have actually sold him 3 or 4 the last couple of months and he was fair and friendly.
Ed

Maybe Phoenix Investment Arms knew who you were? Poor business practices with Joe Schmoe is one matter... ripping off the the Dali Lama of Luger Forums would be quite another!

Jack

[John Sabato]

I agree with Jack Lawman... Don't underestimate your reputation in the Luger collecting community Ed... Not only a moderator of two of the best forums on the internet with THOUSANDS of members internationally, but also an author/historian of the Luger... Phoenix is no dummy... He reads this forum, and I am sure the other one as well.

I Say exercise caution no matter who you deal with... Know the person, know thier reputation, and know the terms... Caveat Emptor is a good policy.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Pete, Are you sure this is the COMPLETE return policy for Simpson's?

Bob & Brad Simpson : http://www.simpsonltd.com/

â?? GUARANTEE: Money will be cheerfully refunded on any item you are not happy with, (EXCEPT LAYAWAYS) but please call before returning an item. Returns must be made within 3 DAYS OF YOUR RECEIVING THEM and they must be in the same condition as received. Sorry but there is no guarantee on firing condition of any item. â??

I still remember the giant flap a member had here over a 15% return policy he was forced to pay by returning a very expensive Single Action Army to Simpson's.

Have they changed again?

Jerry Burney

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally posted by skitowe
To go at risk of shipping a rare Luger for someone to play with or remove parts is intolerable.

Having sold a good number of rare guns online, I never had to worry about granting a three day inspection period with no questions asked return privileges. As long as the buyer pays in advance, there is no risk of being stuck with damaged goods or missing parts.