What Do I Have?

Lonnie W · 10-01-2003, 10:47 PM

I've been lurking the last couple of days. Mostly I have been reading the technical information both here, and on other sites. I wanted to have enough information to be able to make a semi-intelligent posting.
John D. gave me a great deal of help with my initial problem of not being able to log on, so thanks again john.
I have always wanted a Luger, but found them price prohibitive.
The other day a co-worker and myself were discussing handguns, and the subject of Lugers came up. He told me that he had two, and would be willing to sell the "mixmaster".
Neither one of us knows much about them, but, after examining the gun, we arrived at a price of $300.00.
I think that I got a fairly good deal, and I don't think that I stung him, we both walked away happy.
So after much all of the background, here is what I have.
The frame slide and most of the small parts that are numbered, and all belong together, and as best as I can tell, are of Erfurt manufacture, dated 1917.
The entire toggle, bolt, and extractor are from another gun, and are labeled Erfurt.
The side plate, and trigger are from yet another gun, and have matching numbers, (to each other).
The barrel has been replaced with one that appears to be of newer manufacture, and has a different, more modern looking bluing, though it's by no means new.
All of the parts that should be straw are blue, though they don't appear to have been polished, and the quality is too good to be cold blue.
The grips are black plastic, and fit well, though I don't think that they are original mauser grips.
There is some pitting on the frame, and the small parts.
Overall, it has about 60% of it's bluing, with the grip area turning to a brownish patina.
The major parts of the gun appear to have the original bluing. There are no signs any polising, for a reblue.
The gun is tight, and shoots well; it is also fairly accurate, considering the sights.
I have included some pics of the Luger. In the pic of the proof marks, there is a mark above the first character in the proof marks that clearly, (in the pic), appears to be the RC with a crown indicating a rework, or some thing. In person, and with my best lenses, it appears to actually be a crown with a BA underneath it.
Anyway, I would appreciate any help that anyone can give me in identifying my Luger.

Mark on the trigger guard

The proof marks

The right grip

The inside of the right grip

Pitting, this is the worst of it
[img]http://[/img]

So did I do OK on this?
I now want about a dozen more Lugers.

Thanks
Lonnie

Lonnie W · 10-01-2003, 10:50 PM

For some reason, the photo of the pitting didn't link.
Here it is. The pitting

Thanks again
Lonnie

Herb · 10-01-2003, 11:33 PM

My initial impression is that the markings on the right side are those of a 1912 Erfurt, the RC stamping, while not too clear, could mean a DWM rework and reissue, or the Erfurt Imperial Arsenel Rework,repair and reissue proof found on Lugers brought back from the front lines, issued from 1910 thru 1918. Lets see what the others have to add.

Dwight Gruber · 10-02-2003, 03:07 AM

Crown/RC stands for Revision Commission. Parts were constantly inspected for adherence to specification; occasionally parts were found to be "out of spec" but still suitable for use. These were sent to the Revision Commission inspectors for certification, and so stamped by the Commission to absolve the original inspector of any fault if the part subsequently failed in use.

One seldom finds Erfurt-manufactured P-08 without at least one C/RC, often several. One seldom sees them on DWM pistols at all.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 10-02-2003, 09:57 AM

Could you please post a clear focus shot of the inside of the left grip? If they are as genuine Mauser bakelite black grips that were issued in the 1940-1942 time frame, they are worth about one-third to one half of what you spent on the whole gun because they are in great shape.

You got a GREAT deal on that shooter, you could easily have paid $500 or better for it elsewhere.

BTW, What was the other Luger? If you can get the details, it might be worth a lot more than he would take for it..,

Lonnie W · 10-02-2003, 11:26 AM

Thanks for the replies guys, it sounds like I got a fairly good deal on that Luger.
John, here is a pic of the inside of the left grip. It isn't the best photo that I have ever done, but it is the best that I could do, under the circumstanses.

The inside of the left grip

The other Luger was an all matching numbers, (except for the magazine), 1940 Mauser, in very good, almost too good condition.
It had brown plastic grips.....hummmm.
He wanted to keep that one though.

Lonnie

John Sabato · 10-02-2003, 11:55 AM

Your grips are genuine "Black Widow" grips that often go for $125-$175 dollars on eBay...

once again- Congrats!

Lonnie W · 10-02-2003, 12:01 PM

John, thanks again. I had no idea that they were genuine Mauser grips. They probably belong on his Mauser.
The photos don't really show it, but those grips are in almost new condition, so I thought that they were new replacement grips.
I guess that I got a better deal than I had imagined.
Now I need to find a Mauser that need grips.

Thanks again
Lonnie

cduarte67 · 10-08-2003, 05:33 PM

cool, my byf41 has the same grips.

10-01-2003, 10:47 PM	#1
Lonnie W User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What Do I Have? I've been lurking the last couple of days. Mostly I have been reading the technical information both here, and on other sites. I wanted to have enough information to be able to make a semi-intelligent posting. John D. gave me a great deal of help with my initial problem of not being able to log on, so thanks again john. I have always wanted a Luger, but found them price prohibitive. The other day a co-worker and myself were discussing handguns, and the subject of Lugers came up. He told me that he had two, and would be willing to sell the "mixmaster". Neither one of us knows much about them, but, after examining the gun, we arrived at a price of $300.00. I think that I got a fairly good deal, and I don't think that I stung him, we both walked away happy. So after much all of the background, here is what I have. The frame slide and most of the small parts that are numbered, and all belong together, and as best as I can tell, are of Erfurt manufacture, dated 1917. The entire toggle, bolt, and extractor are from another gun, and are labeled Erfurt. The side plate, and trigger are from yet another gun, and have matching numbers, (to each other). The barrel has been replaced with one that appears to be of newer manufacture, and has a different, more modern looking bluing, though it's by no means new. All of the parts that should be straw are blue, though they don't appear to have been polished, and the quality is too good to be cold blue. The grips are black plastic, and fit well, though I don't think that they are original mauser grips. There is some pitting on the frame, and the small parts. Overall, it has about 60% of it's bluing, with the grip area turning to a brownish patina. The major parts of the gun appear to have the original bluing. There are no signs any polising, for a reblue. The gun is tight, and shoots well; it is also fairly accurate, considering the sights. I have included some pics of the Luger. In the pic of the proof marks, there is a mark above the first character in the proof marks that clearly, (in the pic), appears to be the RC with a crown indicating a rework, or some thing. In person, and with my best lenses, it appears to actually be a crown with a BA underneath it. Anyway, I would appreciate any help that anyone can give me in identifying my Luger. Mark on the trigger guard The proof marks The right grip The inside of the right grip Pitting, this is the worst of it [img]http://[/img] So did I do OK on this? I now want about a dozen more Lugers. Thanks Lonnie

10-01-2003, 11:33 PM	#3
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	My initial impression is that the markings on the right side are those of a 1912 Erfurt, the RC stamping, while not too clear, could mean a DWM rework and reissue, or the Erfurt Imperial Arsenel Rework,repair and reissue proof found on Lugers brought back from the front lines, issued from 1910 thru 1918. Lets see what the others have to add. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-02-2003, 09:57 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Could you please post a clear focus shot of the inside of the left grip? If they are as genuine Mauser bakelite black grips that were issued in the 1940-1942 time frame, they are worth about one-third to one half of what you spent on the whole gun because they are in great shape. You got a GREAT deal on that shooter, you could easily have paid $500 or better for it elsewhere. BTW, What was the other Luger? If you can get the details, it might be worth a lot more than he would take for it.., __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2003, 11:55 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Your grips are genuine "Black Widow" grips that often go for $125-$175 dollars on eBay... once again- Congrats! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2003, 10:50 PM	#2
Lonnie W User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For some reason, the photo of the pitting didn't link. Here it is. The pitting Thanks again Lonnie

10-02-2003, 03:07 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,311 Times in 430 Posts	Crown/RC stands for Revision Commission. Parts were constantly inspected for adherence to specification; occasionally parts were found to be "out of spec" but still suitable for use. These were sent to the Revision Commission inspectors for certification, and so stamped by the Commission to absolve the original inspector of any fault if the part subsequently failed in use. One seldom finds Erfurt-manufactured P-08 without at least one C/RC, often several. One seldom sees them on DWM pistols at all. --Dwight

10-02-2003, 11:26 AM	#6
Lonnie W User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the replies guys, it sounds like I got a fairly good deal on that Luger. John, here is a pic of the inside of the left grip. It isn't the best photo that I have ever done, but it is the best that I could do, under the circumstanses. The inside of the left grip The other Luger was an all matching numbers, (except for the magazine), 1940 Mauser, in very good, almost too good condition. It had brown plastic grips.....hummmm. He wanted to keep that one though. Lonnie

10-02-2003, 12:01 PM	#8
Lonnie W User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Carolina USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, thanks again. I had no idea that they were genuine Mauser grips. They probably belong on his Mauser. The photos don't really show it, but those grips are in almost new condition, so I thought that they were new replacement grips. I guess that I got a better deal than I had imagined. Now I need to find a Mauser that need grips. Thanks again Lonnie

10-08-2003, 05:33 PM	#9
cduarte67 New User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Windsor, CT Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	cool, my byf41 has the same grips.