My first P08 (from the battle of Montecassino, 1944) and my first post

[andrev]

Hello from Italy and thanks to read my first message.
I bought a wonderful (at least for me) P08, 42, 1939, parabellum 9x19, in a specialized shop in Northern Italy.

I needed a bit of history and I got it: this Mauser comes from a private collection of weapons from the WWII battle of Montecassino (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino).
It connects me to all the stories of WWII that my grandfather (born in 1915) told me when I was a kid and to handle it and to owe it.... it’s an ‘explosion’ of emotions.

Thanks to this forum I read many post and links concerning the ‘42’ model from 1939, but I have a question on the magazine.

The seller told me that the gun was single serial number in all its part except for the magazine and so it is.

What kind of magazine is the one he gave me? Why it doesn’t have any serial number on its bottom?

sincerely, Andrev

[gunbugs]

The markings on the magazine bottom have been removed. Filed off probably.

[Mac Cat]

Welcome to the Luger Forum.
Thanks for showing us your luger.

The magazine is an FXO magazine and proper for that Mauser Luger.
It should have two small Eagle/37 stamps, "FXO" and "P.08" all on the left side.
The original magazine would have been numbered to the pistol.

[Karl]

I suggest that you do whatever you can immediately to document the connection of this Luger with the Battle of Montecassino. Get at least a signed statement from the collector with as much detail as possible.

KFS

[andrev]

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

Welcome to the Luger Forum.
Thanks for show us your luger.

The magazine is an FXO magazine and proper for that Mauser Luger.
It should have two small Eagle/37 stamps, "FXO" and "P.08" all on the left side.
The original magazine would have been numbered to the pistol.

Thank you, it has two small Eagle/37 stamps, "FXO" and "P.08" all on the left side.
Question: when you say that this magazine is proper for my Mauser, it means that is correct from a historical point of view, isn't it?

[Mac Cat]

You're correct. It's not the original magazine style.

The original 1939 magazine was a wrapped tin metal body and aluminum bottom numbered to the gun (E/63 or E/83 on the base) and no "P.08". Hallock says they were blue colored (The Mauser Parabellum, p.193).

These blue extruded FXO magazines actually came out in 1941 with the byf lugers.

So, I think that an unmarked FXO would have been a reasonable replacement.

[andrev]

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

You're correct. It's not the original magazine style.

The original 1939 magazine was a wrapped tin metal body and aluminum bottom numbered to the gun (E/63 or E/83 on the base) and no "P.08". Hallock says they were blue colored (The Mauser Parabellum, p.193).

These blue extruded FXO magazines actually came out in 1941 with the byf lugers.

So, I think that an unmarked FXO would have been a reasonable replacement.

wow, thanks again sir

related to all the experience you and the other old members of this forum have: is an impossible mission to try to look for the original serial number magazine matching with the pistol?
From 1 to 10 (1 easy - 10 impossible) how could it be difficult to find it among luger owners?

[andrev]

Originally Posted by Karl

I suggest that you do whatever you can immediately to document the connection of this Luger with the Battle of Montecassino. Get at least a signed statement from the collector with as much detail as possible.

KFS

Ok, thanks for your advice.
I spoke again with the professional seller who sold it to me. He told me he bought it in a batch of WWII weapons from a man in Cassino who had inherited from his father a very large collection of weapons from the war.

His father was an important commissioner for the Cassino area after WWII. Due to his role, people were bringing him weapons found in the area in the following years and so he accumulated many pistols and guns.

I do not think the seller is going to tell me who this guy was (the heir, I mean, so I could try to ask him something more), but i'm going to try.

If the story is true and if it doesn't belong to the period before the battle in cassino (1944), it could belong to one of the German divisions on the picture I attached.
But I could be wrong in my reasoning, not knowing perfectly what happened during the months of that hard and difficult battle.

[Mac Cat]

You can post a "Want to Buy" in the WTB part of the Forum (bottom area).
I think you need to post 25 times before that section becomes available.

You can put a message in your profile, too.

And search on-line a lot. Most gun dealers have a lot of magazines that they don't list, so always ask. I think that most luger collectors would be happy to see you find a good matching magazine if they have one to spare.

[andrev]

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

You can post a "Want to Buy" in the WTB part of the Forum (bottom area).
I think you need to post 25 times before that section becomes available.

You can put a message in your profile, too.

And search on-line a lot. Most gun dealers have a lot of magazines that they don't list, so always ask. I think that most luger collectors would be happy to see you find a good matching magazine if they have one to spare.

Thank you mr. Mac Cat, I'm going to do that.

I am literally going crazy with joy in this research and I could never have imagined such a fascinating world behind this piece of 20th century history.
I would like to be able to speak at least one more time with my grandfather who in September 1944 was on the Gothic Line. Luckily we talked a lot when I was a kid and he told me many stories.

[GerColctor]

Unfortunately there is no way that this Luger can be "documented" as having been at any specific battle. If you identified the collector, he only has a story that somebody whose father was given the pistol by a local citizen. This seller has no interest in telling you who this former owner was, so all that you have is a story that was passed down thru multiple links people that attempts to link this weapon to a famous battle. Even your veteran grandfather wouldn't know if that particular pistol was used in that engagement. It might have been captured in the Cassino area, but we or nobody will never truly know.
Nice looking military Luger

Hopefully the seller didn't. use this story to enhance the price of this Luger, which is often the case with some dealers/collectors when negotiating with novice buyers. When buying historical used
weapons, helmets, etc, pay the fair price for the piece, not extra money for an undocumented
story.

[mrerick]

Matching an original magazine to a Luger is very difficult. It is not impossible, and this forum has helped accomplish this in the past. It is very rare to actually do this.

You may find a period correct magazine which was numbered to another pistol, or an unnumbered period correct replacement magazine. These were part of armorer's replacement parts kits and were marked with a small "42" concealment code for Mauser.

Documenting a Luger to a specific location of battle is close to impossible.

Weapon assignments were documented on individual soldier identity records which were scattered with their serving units, and those documents as well as their individual identity cards are hard to find. The task would be to associate an individual serving soldier with a battle and then locate their identity records.

Everything else is anecdotal.

You may find our forum FAQ document helpful. Just follow the FAQ link and you can download the PDF free.

[spangy]

Originally Posted by GerColctor

Unfortunately there is no way that this Luger can be "documented" as having been at any specific battle. If you identified the collector, he only has a story that somebody whose father was given the pistol by a local citizen. This seller has no interest in telling you who this former owner was, so all that you have is a story that was passed down thru multiple links people that attempts to link this weapon to a famous battle. Even your veteran grandfather wouldn't know if that particular pistol was used in that engagement. It might have been captured in the Cassino area, but we or nobody will never truly know.
Nice looking military Luger

Hopefully the seller didn't. use this story to enhance the price of this Luger, which is often the case with some dealers/collectors when negotiating with novice buyers. When buying historical used
weapons, helmets, etc, pay the fair price for the piece, not extra money for an undocumented
story.

Excellent advice from an experienced collector ... Don't buy the story, buy the gun ! - I am so pleased that you are excited by the history involved in our hobby, it means you are one of us and on your way to the most rewarding exciting hobby you could ever have. The bonus is collectors are some of the nicest people you will ever meet.