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Unread 06-19-2023, 07:25 PM   #1
Wolf11B
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Default Opinions, 1940 42 Marked

Looking to get more information, opinions and a price point on this luger. All matching besides the mag, has some wear. I know too it was a bring back for sure. Any help be great!

https://imgur.com/a/nWGI64c#TyHtEBc
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Unread 06-19-2023, 10:29 PM   #2
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Looks right to me.

I would expect it to sell for $2,500, even with the rough condition.
Bring back papers would make it more attractive.
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Unread 06-20-2023, 07:36 PM   #3
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The grips appear to be late commercial replacements. The 2 holes on the back of each one is a clue. I'd try to get it for less than 2k if I could. I certainly wouldn't go over that, considering condition.
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Unread 06-21-2023, 08:09 PM   #4
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I agree with gunbugs on the grips and also the patina of the grips is't correct for the condition of the gun.
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Unread 06-23-2023, 04:27 PM   #5
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I really appreciate all the help and knowledge you guys are sharing. I knew the grips didn't look right but I have seen BS "real" repro grips before but I have encountered grips like these before. I was being told they might be late war commerical grips possibily
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Unread 06-24-2023, 01:21 PM   #6
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The grips have nothing to do with "late war". Probably 90's vintage, or newer.
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Unread 06-24-2023, 06:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
The grips have nothing to do with "late war". Probably 90's vintage, or newer.
Maybe "post-war" was meant.. Definitely that category. They seem fairly well machine-checkered--evidenced by the over-run of the pattern onto the end grain at the top of the right grip, which is properly flat.

90s is a decent guess Here's why I think so: The "diamonds" of the checkered pattern does not seem to be distorted as they make their way around parts of the grip that are not flat; and the closer to the edge (vertical), the greater the distortion. This is because it's easy to make a machine that cuts grooves nicely. The trick to avoid distorted diamonds is keeping the cutter perpendicular to the surface it's grooving.

Walnut grips were offered by Erma as an option for their early Erma toggle pistol models of the 60s, and their second and final line of KGP series guns provided the same relative option.

The early ones are the same dimensions and heft as A Luger, albeit their look was a little weird. The walnut grips look quite Luger-esque, minus the cutout for the safety lever. Their checkered pattern, however, does not go all the way to the edges, towards which the angles/lines be come increasingly more distorted. Thus, a machine complex enough to mimic nice hand work was not available to them for grip production, at least not up until at least 1970. IMHO

The factory walnut grips for Erma's succeeding KGP series were also machine-checkered. They avoided the distortion by simply checkering each panel flat across it's top, and leaving rounded edges front and back for the KGP 690, and with a triple machine-cut border fore and aft on panels for the KGP 68A. A third authentic variation would be rosewood artisan grips (They are nice) on the KGP pistols Robert Beeman imported, replacing the basic factory target grips. The earlier ones looked more authentic at a glance.

My point in all of this that the tooling to checker the way Sean's grips are probably wasn't around/available until the 90s. Too bad about that right grip...

Sean, it's best for future users if you post your pics on the forum, where they can be used for reference and context. Photo services come and go, or change, so this is the best place to archive so all can continue to benefit.
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Unread 06-24-2023, 07:07 PM   #8
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Beeman P-08 .22lr (KGP 69) and my project, the "Ermarican Eagle," a KGP 68A in .380 The grips on the latter are factory originals, but modified to extend their pattern to the edges.
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Unread 06-25-2023, 04:40 PM   #9
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Really I appreciate all the new knowledge and tips I have gained, thank you all very much!
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Unread 06-26-2023, 08:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithacaartist View Post
Beeman P-08 .22lr (KGP 69) and my project, the "Ermarican Eagle," a KGP 68A in .380 The grips on the latter are factory originals, but modified to extend their pattern to the edges.
Ithacaartist - how does the KGP-68A shoot?
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Unread 06-27-2023, 06:51 PM   #11
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Ithacaartist - how does the KGP-68A shoot?
Meh. Seems to have lots of felt recoil. They're dinky, about 66% scale of a real Luger. The .380s can break front toggle links and crack their cast ZAMAK frames along the frame rail up front. All KGP series pistols can potentially throw their extractor systems into the stratosphere.

Not that they're not very cute and sorta fun to shoot... I basically have an example of most of their variations, sell parts for Erma's toggle pistols, and have wound up with opinions and procedures to get them running.

They're realizing higher prices on Gunbroker now than when I bought the ones I have. Penny auctions seem to get the best bidding on them. And any of them is more scarce/rare than a Luger!
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Unread 06-28-2023, 11:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithacaartist View Post
All KGP series pistols can potentially throw their extractor systems into the stratosphere.
My KGP-69 .22 was bought cheap because the extractor was missing. no one was bidding. I researched where to get the replacement and springs before I bid.


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Not that they're not very cute and sorta fun to shoot...
Very fun, after chamber reaming.
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Unread 06-28-2023, 10:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
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My KGP-69 .22 was bought cheap because the extractor was missing. no one was bidding. I researched where to get the replacement and springs before I bid.
I have replacement extractor bodies, springs, and teeny plungers/guides in stock @ $50 for the combo. I worked with my machinist and we made very nice, crisp reproductions that are plug and play.

Quote:
Very fun, after chamber reaming.
Mostly the .22 cal KGP 69s, which can often fail to go fully into battery and fail to extract. This seems true of the earlier Ep and La models as well. Reaming with a "standard" or "sporting" finish chamber reamer seems to do the trick, although some ammo works better than others. I've found that there about a jillion .22 reamers, all very specific to ammo and application/use. SAAMI standards give just a tad more room than the ones cut buy the European standards.
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