Norinco Luger - Page 2

Dan44 · 11-29-2010, 11:33 PM

In the late 80's I talked to David Keng at a gun show in FL. He told me of the "Legend" Line of firearms. First was the Legend AK and the 14S M1A1 copy (of which the first pre-ban rifles were well finished and the later post ban Norincos were not) Then the Norinco 1911A1 arrived. There were to be more but the Clinton ban killed that.

suum cuique · 12-01-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

Both of my Norinco AK's are ugly too....but they are 100% reliable and shoot like champs. One of them has over 10,000 rounds through it with zero jams. In fact, no Norinco firearm I've ever owned has given me the slightest bit of trouble. The same can be said of my Norinco NDM-86 (SVD). That thing can hit a man at 1000 yards but sure is ugly. Exterior metal finishing is crude in the extreme but on the inside it's a thing of beauty. You gotta' remember that Norinco is in the business of making firearms that work. They polish and fit parts only where necessary. And when they do, their work is as good as you are going to get. How pretty it is is either low priority or no priority. I have never seen a Norinco product that was not top notch quality. You can't jugde a book by its cover. Also, ther is no "Norinco" per se. That is a name used to market products made by MANY state run military factories throughout China. All of them build for the military and as such have very high quality standards when it comes to durability and function. I don't think the Chinese made this Luger to collect. I think they made it for a mass market audience as an inexpensive way to enjoy shooting a Luger without paying the high price of an original or the worry of it breaking. I'd take a Norinco anything any day of the week!

A friend of mine bought a Norinco M 14 type rifle in the late 80's, the finnish was not impressing at all but it was a very reliable rifle. About the same time I aquired a Norinco made SKS. It's an reliable, cheap rifle. Why buying a more expensive semi auto AK? A SKS does the same job. Solid as a rock.
And last but not least, plenty of affordable accessories are offered for this rifle. Stocks, mags, scopes and much, much more....

nukem556 · 12-01-2010, 08:26 PM

Well, the reliabilty of an AK is based on its ingenious design, not any particular manufacturer....hell, back in the 80's, back alley gunsmiths in Peshawar were making functional copies using nothing more than files, hand drills , and foot powered lathes. As far as the reliabilty of a Norinco M14 clone, sure it might be reliable for a few hundred rounds. In Kunhausen's exhaustive work on the M14/M1A ,he documents major dimensional errors and substandard heat treatment of the Chinese versions, e.g the bolt, the critical heart of the weapon, measured 37 Rockwell hardness as opposed to GI standard of 52, and the locking lugs were badly miscut. My Springfield M1A has approx 3500 rnds through it and headspaces and shoots tight as a drum...would you put your face behind a Norinco after 3500 rnds?

Nuts and bolts aside, I paid 1200.00 for my M1A back in the mid-90's and could have bought a Norinco for 600.00, and did it gladly. That's 600.00 that will never buy the ammuntion to kill my sons with. The Chinese generals are on record stating they are planning for total war with the US, but we keep whistling past the graveyard and sending them our money. We are precisely at the same point now as we were with Germany and Japan in the late 1930's......a lot of Chamberlains and precious few Churchills ...(insert Satayana's quote here)

Wilhelm · 12-01-2010, 08:33 PM

[QUOTE=nukem556;186369]Well, the reliabilty of an AK is based on its ingenious design, not any particular manufacturer....QUOTE]

Try telling Century arms that.

matt ott · 12-22-2010, 10:07 AM

i just had to add my 2 cents worth, if norinco or poly tech wanted to build a really good and beautiful luger they could no question as they are first and formost price conscious and are really good at business.. all the norinco guns i ever had functioned with no problems and yes even the 1911 45 auto.. that my friends is a fact... Matt

alamar · 12-22-2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

IF Norinco ever were to make a Luger pistol it had better be in .45 or cost $300.00 because there would be few buyers otherwise IMO. I owned a Norinco 1911 A1 once and everytime I took it to the range some part would break and fall off.
I was not impressed with the quality of it.

Jerry Burney

Jerry

quality has become much better over the last few years. Norinco makes some very nice looking and extremely reliable firearms nowadays.

Wilhelm · 12-22-2010, 11:50 PM

22 years of abuse and nothing has fallen off yet.

I've heard horror stories but you can't prove them by me. I'll stand by my Chicom any day.

alanint · 12-23-2010, 08:52 AM

Without comment.....

http://shock.military.com/Shock/vide...8EB78D93715971
08632E8C6?displayContent=224142

sheepherder · 12-23-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

22 years of abuse and nothing has fallen off yet.

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/P1080064.jpg

I have that exact underfolder w/angled FH that I bought back in the 70's...Still have the styrofoam box it came in even...

But it is not a pleasure to shoot...It is all sharp edges...Especially the trigger guard...which never fails to cut me on rapid fire...

I should probably clean it once in a while...Nah!!!...

HisSoldier · 10-05-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

I owned a Norinco 1911 A1 once and everytime I took it to the range some part would break and fall off.

That does not fit in with my experience, my "Nork" is very reliable. It's not a Dan Wesson but cost less than a third of what a DW cost. Also, it's the only 1911 I own that has a hard chromed bore! Very nice pistol, and an honest one, no MIM like American makers have managed to slip past stupid American buyers.

Quote:

think of anything you've seen made by them thats not substandard...price is all that matters thses days, everything's disposable.

I got my free China made peanut knife two days ago, the ones the NRA gives to donators. I've been buying knives for many years, but this is the first knife I could shave with right out of the box! Quality? If you are expecting junk from China you better find a time machine, their quality is rising very fast. Did you guys know that Buck has a factory in China? The little Buck penknife I bought made in the USA was not as nicely made as the new one made in China, I'm sorry to have to say that but it's true.

Yes, you can order junk from China, but pay a Chinese factory 1/2 of what an American factory makes and you will actually get better quality!
India is next, soon they will enter the market, learn QC and run with sales all over the world.

The fact is that extremely high quality products can be made in any country if you pay for quality. It's not all about wages, it's also about government interference, which we have in spades and our competitors don't.

OODA_Loop · 10-07-2011, 06:29 PM

The fact that the Chinese can put a man in orbit suggests that they can master 100 year old technology vis-a-vis the Luger. Yes, their copy is ugly.

Their M14 bolts are bad; the receivers are fantastic.

CavScoutEurope · 10-07-2011, 07:51 PM

I used to own a Norinco 1911A1 and miss it every time I think about it ( the ATF wouldn't let me bring it back to the states)! Even if Norinco did start to mass produce a Luger we could never get it here in the states unless it was smuggled in.

John Sabato · 10-11-2011, 12:42 PM

I have visited the Waterford Crystal factory in Ireland. It was amazing to see those precision craftsmen work their trade. Soon to be no more... they have moved manufacturing operations to CHINA. I bought some the last crystal ware made in Ireland while I was there to leave to my children someday...

lugerholsterrepair · 10-11-2011, 02:05 PM

Don't get me wrong..I LIKE Chinese stuff. It's usually very inexpensive and high quality. I am sure they will improve as time goes on just as the Japanese have.

All I know is the Norinco .45 I had 20 years ago was poorly made. Perhaps they make a better one now. I didn't have any trouble with how it shot..just that everytime I looked down a part had fallen off.

John...Unfortunate to hear about Waterford. Times they are a changin.

ithacaartist · 10-11-2011, 03:41 PM

Guys, we have no farther to look than Corning NY, home of Steuben glass which will soon be no more. They've done fantastic art glass for 100 yrs, give or take, and now they are done. More out-of-work craftsmen...

alanint · 10-11-2011, 04:04 PM

I did marketing and consulting work for Sheaffer Pen, built entirely in Fort Madison, Iowa........until a couple of years ago when the entire process was moved to Asia and several hundred craftsmen were put out of work in an already depressed town.

hgreer2 · 10-11-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Don't get me wrong..I LIKE Chinese stuff.

Huh................

That's why so many Americans have lost their jobs.

Harry

lugercollector · 10-13-2011, 02:31 AM

Interesting Thread!!......Was the Norinco Luger prototype made from forged Steel?.....

lugerholsterrepair · 10-20-2011, 11:59 AM

Harry..That's why so many Americans have lost their jobs.

No. The reason so many Americans lost their jobs is an indepth subject that cannot be explained so simply. My fondness for Chinese stuff is shared by millions around the World. The chinese managed to play the game better than the Americans. Maybe they will slow down when their version of the EPA puts the same stranglehold on their economy ours has. That or they form unions. Or get a corrupt government that favors banks over the people. I could go on but you get my point..we did this to ourselves. WE are responsible for letting the Chinese rule manufacturing of the World.
People are only making choices...good products..good prices. Only a fool would decide to buy inferior products at a higher price.
I can buy a Chinese made cordless 18V drill for 15 bucks. Best drill I have owned in 30 years. I don't know how they do it but they do..a comparable product made anywhere else starts at 5 times the price.
Having a limited income makes the choice for me. I work hard for my money. I have to make it work for me. I would prefer to buy American..I am a political patriot..but an economic anarchist.
America must decide to live with controlled pollution and not all of us will become millionairs. We have to decide we WANT to make things the World wants at a competitive price. Untill and unless we do we are doomed to spend our wealth away and slide into economic obscurity.

Jack Lawman · 10-21-2011, 12:35 PM

Nothing like a good ol' fashioned sweat shop to keep prices down

Jack

12-01-2010, 08:33 PM	#24
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 340 Thanks: 43 Thanked 107 Times in 51 Posts	[QUOTE=nukem556;186369]Well, the reliabilty of an AK is based on its ingenious design, not any particular manufacturer....QUOTE] Try telling Century arms that. __________________ I promise to be nice and play well with others

12-22-2010, 10:07 AM	#25
matt ott Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 33 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	norinco luger i just had to add my 2 cents worth, if norinco or poly tech wanted to build a really good and beautiful luger they could no question as they are first and formost price conscious and are really good at business.. all the norinco guns i ever had functioned with no problems and yes even the 1911 45 auto.. that my friends is a fact... Matt

12-22-2010, 11:50 PM	#27
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 340 Thanks: 43 Thanked 107 Times in 51 Posts	22 years of abuse and nothing has fallen off yet. I've heard horror stories but you can't prove them by me. I'll stand by my Chicom any day. __________________ I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-11-2011, 12:42 PM	#33
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I have visited the Waterford Crystal factory in Ireland. It was amazing to see those precision craftsmen work their trade. Soon to be no more... they have moved manufacturing operations to CHINA. I bought some the last crystal ware made in Ireland while I was there to leave to my children someday... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-11-2011, 02:05 PM	#34
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Don't get me wrong..I LIKE Chinese stuff. It's usually very inexpensive and high quality. I am sure they will improve as time goes on just as the Japanese have. All I know is the Norinco .45 I had 20 years ago was poorly made. Perhaps they make a better one now. I didn't have any trouble with how it shot..just that everytime I looked down a part had fallen off. John...Unfortunate to hear about Waterford. Times they are a changin. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-29-2010, 11:33 PM	#21
Dan44 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	In the late 80's I talked to David Keng at a gun show in FL. He told me of the "Legend" Line of firearms. First was the Legend AK and the 14S M1A1 copy (of which the first pre-ban rifles were well finished and the later post ban Norincos were not) Then the Norinco 1911A1 arrived. There were to be more but the Clinton ban killed that.

12-01-2010, 08:26 PM	#23
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Well, the reliabilty of an AK is based on its ingenious design, not any particular manufacturer....hell, back in the 80's, back alley gunsmiths in Peshawar were making functional copies using nothing more than files, hand drills , and foot powered lathes. As far as the reliabilty of a Norinco M14 clone, sure it might be reliable for a few hundred rounds. In Kunhausen's exhaustive work on the M14/M1A ,he documents major dimensional errors and substandard heat treatment of the Chinese versions, e.g the bolt, the critical heart of the weapon, measured 37 Rockwell hardness as opposed to GI standard of 52, and the locking lugs were badly miscut. My Springfield M1A has approx 3500 rnds through it and headspaces and shoots tight as a drum...would you put your face behind a Norinco after 3500 rnds? Nuts and bolts aside, I paid 1200.00 for my M1A back in the mid-90's and could have bought a Norinco for 600.00, and did it gladly. That's 600.00 that will never buy the ammuntion to kill my sons with. The Chinese generals are on record stating they are planning for total war with the US, but we keep whistling past the graveyard and sending them our money. We are precisely at the same point now as we were with Germany and Japan in the late 1930's......a lot of Chamberlains and precious few Churchills ...(insert Satayana's quote here)

12-23-2010, 08:52 AM	#28
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Without comment..... http://shock.military.com/Shock/vide...8EB78D93715971 08632E8C6?displayContent=224142

10-07-2011, 06:29 PM	#31
OODA_Loop New User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: WA State or DC area Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The fact that the Chinese can put a man in orbit suggests that they can master 100 year old technology vis-a-vis the Luger. Yes, their copy is ugly. Their M14 bolts are bad; the receivers are fantastic.

10-07-2011, 07:51 PM	#32
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	I used to own a Norinco 1911A1 and miss it every time I think about it ( the ATF wouldn't let me bring it back to the states)! Even if Norinco did start to mass produce a Luger we could never get it here in the states unless it was smuggled in.

10-11-2011, 03:41 PM	#35
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Guys, we have no farther to look than Corning NY, home of Steuben glass which will soon be no more. They've done fantastic art glass for 100 yrs, give or take, and now they are done. More out-of-work craftsmen...

10-11-2011, 04:04 PM	#36
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I did marketing and consulting work for Sheaffer Pen, built entirely in Fort Madison, Iowa........until a couple of years ago when the entire process was moved to Asia and several hundred craftsmen were put out of work in an already depressed town.

10-13-2011, 02:31 AM	#38
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Interesting Thread!!......Was the Norinco Luger prototype made from forged Steel?.....

10-20-2011, 11:59 AM	#39
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Harry..That's why so many Americans have lost their jobs. No. The reason so many Americans lost their jobs is an indepth subject that cannot be explained so simply. My fondness for Chinese stuff is shared by millions around the World. The chinese managed to play the game better than the Americans. Maybe they will slow down when their version of the EPA puts the same stranglehold on their economy ours has. That or they form unions. Or get a corrupt government that favors banks over the people. I could go on but you get my point..we did this to ourselves. WE are responsible for letting the Chinese rule manufacturing of the World. People are only making choices...good products..good prices. Only a fool would decide to buy inferior products at a higher price. I can buy a Chinese made cordless 18V drill for 15 bucks. Best drill I have owned in 30 years. I don't know how they do it but they do..a comparable product made anywhere else starts at 5 times the price. Having a limited income makes the choice for me. I work hard for my money. I have to make it work for me. I would prefer to buy American..I am a political patriot..but an economic anarchist. America must decide to live with controlled pollution and not all of us will become millionairs. We have to decide we WANT to make things the World wants at a competitive price. Untill and unless we do we are doomed to spend our wealth away and slide into economic obscurity. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-21-2011, 12:35 PM	#40
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Cheaper than Dirt Nothing like a good ol' fashioned sweat shop to keep prices down Jack Attached Thumbnails __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?