.45 Luger, and new Lugers

obrito · 10-27-2005, 01:29 PM

Ok, I know this a probably worn-out issue, bear with me its my first post. I have gotten really interested in the .45 Luger. I know about the Krause and Martz, but these 2 are ealderly gentlemen. Besides them, is there anyone else who makes a good, reliable .45 Luger??? What ever happened to the Orimar project???

Also, why doesn't Mauser or any other company remake the Lugers, I for one be interested on a new Luger. Like the new 1911s from Colt. I think its a good idea, and it be cheaper to aquire a .45 Luger eventually if the make that caliber also. Hey, its a Dream but ...

Edward Tinker · 10-27-2005, 02:46 PM

otto, I do not know anyone that makes a 45 luger by hand. Krause, who is in his 50's might take offense to calling him elderly, makes them new. Mister Martz takes two and makes one.

it simply costs too much to make a luger to make it worthwhile for independents to make them.

Welcome to the forum,

Ed

obrito · 10-30-2005, 10:04 PM

My sincere apologies to Mr. Krouse should he ever read this. I thought he was older...
I just do not understan with todays technology and advances, how something so desired and by so many can not be produced???
A modern reliable .45 Luger would be bought by many gun lovers.
Also, $15,000 dollars is too much to pay for many. What ever happened to Orimar and their .45 project?

Lugerdoc · 10-31-2005, 08:20 AM

Pobrecito (tac), Perhaps you should check with Mauro or check out page 35 in Francis Allan's "The Mauser Parabellum" book, which pictures a .45 prototype luger that they attempted, but never got functioning well enough to go into production. I sill have plenty of these books available @$35 + $5 for priority S&H, yes even to UK. Tom

obrito · 10-31-2005, 03:01 PM

En ingles para que la mayoria entiendan pues: Tac, that is my point exactly, how come a gun so desired like a .45 Luger or even a new production of the Luger with todays advances on technology are so difficult to make or get into production??? I mean, I do not have $15,000 to spend on a gun and hobby, but if say a big company like Mauser makes a .45 Luger on a production scale and say its cost would be $3000 wouldn't you and a grand mayority of gun lovers end up byuing one? for that price I know I would.
Un Cordial saludo

Heinz · 10-31-2005, 08:30 PM

"que las pistolas son prohibidas en mi paÃ?Â*s pobre"

Sadly Tac, very sadly.

mauro · 11-01-2005, 06:56 AM

Dear Otto,
If we have to learn something from the Mauser experience in producing new Luger is that the modern techniques of production donÃ¢??t simplify the production at all.
Mauser found plenty of problems in starting again the production. Herr Weiss stated that in the 1940 era, it was necessary 650 machine operations and 450 hand operations to build a P08. It was necessary twelve hours of labor for each gun.
Now in the 1969, Mauser states that it was necessary twelve hours of work to build a 29/70 model. Exactly the same!

According to Mauser production analysis, to run Parabellums in any significant quantity at all required a minimum of 750 machines.

It was not a luxury that Mr. Weiss brought 800 machines with him when the production of Parabellums was transferred from Berlin to Oberndorf in May 1930.

The production of the .45 caliber model is still more complicate. Mauser, in 1970 era, produced only a few prototypes in this caliber ant all have feed problems.

I really think that the production of Parabellum in .45 caliber will be only a hand made production done by really expert gun smiths.

For you information, also Mr. Werle in Germany is producing Parabellums in this caliber.

Ciao
Mauro

Edward Tinker · 11-01-2005, 10:29 AM

English or both languages helps those anglo's that beleive that ferinores (sp) are talking about them

Ron Wood · 11-01-2005, 11:05 AM

Our esteemed member Ã¢??tacfoleyÃ¢?? has requested that I post the following pictureÃ¢?Â¦presumably as testament to his impoverished status. However, his natty attire would belie he is as destitute as he would have us believe. The rather fanciful narrative accompanying the picture, as provided by tac, is included verbatim.

"Dear Ron - I would be very grateful if you would post this piccy of tac, Mrs tac, and the family Ig waiting outside our hut for the wagon to take us into town for a day's panhandling among the better-off portion of the local population.

The piece of paper in Mrs tac's right paw is the permission to beg from the local squire, and must be carried at all times to avoid arrestment. The short white-furred guy in the centre is the family Ig, who will be familiar to you as my avatar.

Our chicken corral can be seen immediately to our front, sadly depleted by the necessity to trade them in for firewood. The low viewpoint of the shot is because it was taken about three feet down the nearby bank of the creek that occasionally washes our hut away

"

policeluger · 11-01-2005, 11:29 AM

Perhaps we need to divert our donations to Katrina/Rita relief efforts and help our own over seas cousins....

obrito · 11-01-2005, 11:59 AM

Thanks for the info Mauro, but there has to be a better way to make Lugers in any caliber today, I am yet not convinced. But, thanks for the reply. How much is the price for the German gentleman's guns?

Rod WMG · 11-01-2005, 12:24 PM

tac, your economic status has left me distraught in the extreme. I just can't imagine your having to consult a Rolex to determine how long you've been famished! When one is in misery he only wants to know approximately how long it's lasted, not precisely.

Smash the watch immediately. I know it could be traded intact for food, but you probably would have trouble severing your ties to it. If you break it, you could still part it out and possibly realize some moldy bread or not quite spoilt cheese.

Best of luck to you and, no, I just couldn't charge you my usual consultant's fee!

Roadkill · 11-01-2005, 02:38 PM

And I thought we had problems down here. Tac, I promise to forgo my consumption of Spam in a nearly ultimate act of sacrifice and donate it to a needy family, ie yours. Expect a yearly contribution of one whole unopened 12 oz can to be delivered henceforth beginning next year. I am sure this will greatly alleviate your dire circumstances. I also beseech everyone else here to also make a similar sacrifice. If Spam is not available then I suggest Vienna sausage as a suitable replacement. Refence the .45 Luger, why not produce a standard slide/recoil pistol in .45 that looks like a Luger? Use something along the basis of an Astra 400.

rk

Rod WMG · 11-01-2005, 04:53 PM

"Sadly, if I were to part with THIS Rolex, I still have three others and five Breitlings to get rid of...not counting the four Omegas...

tac"

Your hardship is almost more than I can bear!

Rod WMG · 11-01-2005, 08:22 PM

And that is more than a harship; it's a tragedy of the first magnitude, pard.

obrito · 11-02-2005, 01:32 PM

tac, your weird, and I was asking about the .45 Luger. about the .45 Luger, it is a shame, and it is a shame that there is no modern lugers being made either. Such a fine shooting and historic weapon. It would be interesting, for ex, like Colt has brought back the 1911 and 1911 A1 military style guns. It is just sad... as I know many of us would buy one.

Rod WMG · 11-02-2005, 09:48 PM

Obrito, tac has a tremendous sense of humor IMO...particularly when you consider he has lost his handguns to idiotic "reformers" in his country/government. In his situation I probably couldn't bring myself to make light of anything at all.

I apologize that you think we highjacked your thread. I'm sure many, if not most, of us would welcome a modern high quality Luger, particularly one in .45 cal..

John Sabato · 11-03-2005, 11:32 AM

I have been privately aware of a very serious effort by a well-known and respected collector/dealer, that has not been publicized, to try and mass produce an affordable .45 caliber Luger reproduction for well over a year now. Every time I have inquired, there has been a delay in engineering or prototyping because of other pressing business needs... It is about time that I inquire again since it has been about 6 months...

I shall let you know what his reply is...

and Oh, BTW, it isn't Ralph Shattuck... or Orimar... I am not at liberty to discuss whose project this is. Sorry. But I will reveal all when I have been released from my confidentiality agreement.

obrito · 11-03-2005, 01:48 PM

Thank you John:
I will follow the forum closely for any news! Hope it will be good news one day... (hopefully!) Thanks for the info.
OB

Hugh · 11-03-2005, 02:18 PM

My Dear Tac,

Your tale of woe has touched my heartstrings. I will be happy to send to you by surface transport 100 lbs of Boudin that was recently uncovered beneath several feet of mud in the New Orleans French Quarter. There will be no cost to you whatsoever, as the owners are most anxious to donate it to a worthy cause. It seems that the tantalizing aroma of this slighly aged product is discouraging customers from entering their recently reopened business establishment.

Yr mst hmble serv,

The Armadillo

10-27-2005, 01:29 PM	#1
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	.45 Luger, and new Lugers Ok, I know this a probably worn-out issue, bear with me its my first post. I have gotten really interested in the .45 Luger. I know about the Krause and Martz, but these 2 are ealderly gentlemen. Besides them, is there anyone else who makes a good, reliable .45 Luger??? What ever happened to the Orimar project??? Also, why doesn't Mauser or any other company remake the Lugers, I for one be interested on a new Luger. Like the new 1911s from Colt. I think its a good idea, and it be cheaper to aquire a .45 Luger eventually if the make that caliber also. Hey, its a Dream but ... __________________ Hola!

10-27-2005, 02:46 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	otto, I do not know anyone that makes a 45 luger by hand. Krause, who is in his 50's might take offense to calling him elderly, makes them new. Mister Martz takes two and makes one. it simply costs too much to make a luger to make it worthwhile for independents to make them. Welcome to the forum, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-30-2005, 10:04 PM	#3
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My sincere apologies to Mr. Krouse should he ever read this. I thought he was older... I just do not understan with todays technology and advances, how something so desired and by so many can not be produced??? A modern reliable .45 Luger would be bought by many gun lovers. Also, $15,000 dollars is too much to pay for many. What ever happened to Orimar and their .45 project? __________________ Hola!

10-31-2005, 08:20 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Pobrecito (tac), Perhaps you should check with Mauro or check out page 35 in Francis Allan's "The Mauser Parabellum" book, which pictures a .45 prototype luger that they attempted, but never got functioning well enough to go into production. I sill have plenty of these books available @$35 + $5 for priority S&H, yes even to UK. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-31-2005, 03:01 PM	#5
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	En ingles para que la mayoria entiendan pues: Tac, that is my point exactly, how come a gun so desired like a .45 Luger or even a new production of the Luger with todays advances on technology are so difficult to make or get into production??? I mean, I do not have $15,000 to spend on a gun and hobby, but if say a big company like Mauser makes a .45 Luger on a production scale and say its cost would be $3000 wouldn't you and a grand mayority of gun lovers end up byuing one? for that price I know I would. Un Cordial saludo __________________ Hola!

10-31-2005, 08:30 PM	#6
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	"que las pistolas son prohibidas en mi paÃ?Â*s pobre" Sadly Tac, very sadly.

11-01-2005, 06:56 AM	#7
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Dear Otto, If we have to learn something from the Mauser experience in producing new Luger is that the modern techniques of production donÃ¢??t simplify the production at all. Mauser found plenty of problems in starting again the production. Herr Weiss stated that in the 1940 era, it was necessary 650 machine operations and 450 hand operations to build a P08. It was necessary twelve hours of labor for each gun. Now in the 1969, Mauser states that it was necessary twelve hours of work to build a 29/70 model. Exactly the same! According to Mauser production analysis, to run Parabellums in any significant quantity at all required a minimum of 750 machines. It was not a luxury that Mr. Weiss brought 800 machines with him when the production of Parabellums was transferred from Berlin to Oberndorf in May 1930. The production of the .45 caliber model is still more complicate. Mauser, in 1970 era, produced only a few prototypes in this caliber ant all have feed problems. I really think that the production of Parabellum in .45 caliber will be only a hand made production done by really expert gun smiths. For you information, also Mr. Werle in Germany is producing Parabellums in this caliber. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

11-01-2005, 10:29 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	English or both languages helps those anglo's that beleive that ferinores (sp) are talking about them __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-01-2005, 11:05 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Our esteemed member Ã¢??tacfoleyÃ¢?? has requested that I post the following pictureÃ¢?Â¦presumably as testament to his impoverished status. However, his natty attire would belie he is as destitute as he would have us believe. The rather fanciful narrative accompanying the picture, as provided by tac, is included verbatim. "Dear Ron - I would be very grateful if you would post this piccy of tac, Mrs tac, and the family Ig waiting outside our hut for the wagon to take us into town for a day's panhandling among the better-off portion of the local population. The piece of paper in Mrs tac's right paw is the permission to beg from the local squire, and must be carried at all times to avoid arrestment. The short white-furred guy in the centre is the family Ig, who will be familiar to you as my avatar. Our chicken corral can be seen immediately to our front, sadly depleted by the necessity to trade them in for firewood. The low viewpoint of the shot is because it was taken about three feet down the nearby bank of the creek that occasionally washes our hut away " __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-01-2005, 11:29 AM	#10
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Perhaps we need to divert our donations to Katrina/Rita relief efforts and help our own over seas cousins....

11-01-2005, 11:59 AM	#11
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info Mauro, but there has to be a better way to make Lugers in any caliber today, I am yet not convinced. But, thanks for the reply. How much is the price for the German gentleman's guns? __________________ Hola!

11-01-2005, 12:24 PM	#12
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	tac, your economic status has left me distraught in the extreme. I just can't imagine your having to consult a Rolex to determine how long you've been famished! When one is in misery he only wants to know approximately how long it's lasted, not precisely. Smash the watch immediately. I know it could be traded intact for food, but you probably would have trouble severing your ties to it. If you break it, you could still part it out and possibly realize some moldy bread or not quite spoilt cheese. Best of luck to you and, no, I just couldn't charge you my usual consultant's fee!

11-01-2005, 02:38 PM	#13
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	And I thought we had problems down here. Tac, I promise to forgo my consumption of Spam in a nearly ultimate act of sacrifice and donate it to a needy family, ie yours. Expect a yearly contribution of one whole unopened 12 oz can to be delivered henceforth beginning next year. I am sure this will greatly alleviate your dire circumstances. I also beseech everyone else here to also make a similar sacrifice. If Spam is not available then I suggest Vienna sausage as a suitable replacement. Refence the .45 Luger, why not produce a standard slide/recoil pistol in .45 that looks like a Luger? Use something along the basis of an Astra 400. rk

11-01-2005, 04:53 PM	#14
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"Sadly, if I were to part with THIS Rolex, I still have three others and five Breitlings to get rid of...not counting the four Omegas... tac" Your hardship is almost more than I can bear!

11-01-2005, 08:22 PM	#15
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And that is more than a harship; it's a tragedy of the first magnitude, pard.

11-02-2005, 01:32 PM	#16
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	tac, your weird, and I was asking about the .45 Luger. about the .45 Luger, it is a shame, and it is a shame that there is no modern lugers being made either. Such a fine shooting and historic weapon. It would be interesting, for ex, like Colt has brought back the 1911 and 1911 A1 military style guns. It is just sad... as I know many of us would buy one. __________________ Hola!

11-02-2005, 09:48 PM	#17
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Obrito, tac has a tremendous sense of humor IMO...particularly when you consider he has lost his handguns to idiotic "reformers" in his country/government. In his situation I probably couldn't bring myself to make light of anything at all. I apologize that you think we highjacked your thread. I'm sure many, if not most, of us would welcome a modern high quality Luger, particularly one in .45 cal..

11-03-2005, 11:32 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I have been privately aware of a very serious effort by a well-known and respected collector/dealer, that has not been publicized, to try and mass produce an affordable .45 caliber Luger reproduction for well over a year now. Every time I have inquired, there has been a delay in engineering or prototyping because of other pressing business needs... It is about time that I inquire again since it has been about 6 months... I shall let you know what his reply is... and Oh, BTW, it isn't Ralph Shattuck... or Orimar... I am not at liberty to discuss whose project this is. Sorry. But I will reveal all when I have been released from my confidentiality agreement. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-03-2005, 01:48 PM	#19
obrito User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you John: I will follow the forum closely for any news! Hope it will be good news one day... (hopefully!) Thanks for the info. OB __________________ Hola!

11-03-2005, 02:18 PM	#20
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	My Dear Tac, Your tale of woe has touched my heartstrings. I will be happy to send to you by surface transport 100 lbs of Boudin that was recently uncovered beneath several feet of mud in the New Orleans French Quarter. There will be no cost to you whatsoever, as the owners are most anxious to donate it to a worthy cause. It seems that the tantalizing aroma of this slighly aged product is discouraging customers from entering their recently reopened business establishment. Yr mst hmble serv, The Armadillo __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*