New collector question

gsonnenmd · 06-25-2005, 10:45 PM

Howdy to eveybody. I'm new to this forum & have a few questions. I collect a variety of military sidearms, especially 1911's. I've never ventured into Lugermania. There are so many angles on collecting this gun, frankly I find it intimidating.

Anyhow, I would like to get a "shooter" Luger. I've been eyeing & priceing Stoeger/Mitchells and Interarms/Mausers at local gunshows. I live near Dallas & we are blessed with some great shows.

Can anyone give me some direction: which of these will be the most reliable? What is a reasonable price to pay for a NIB piece? (I'm looking for a 4" in 9mm).

From what I've seen & handled, I like the Interarms/Mausers better, they feel like more solid construction.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Ron Smith · 06-26-2005, 12:10 AM

Hi Greg, Welcome to the forum. By the way, you are doomed.

Of all of the post-war Lugers. By all means get a Mauser. They are aquiring a collector following. And are rapidly going up in value. If you can find one as new in the box for $800-$1000. I would go for it. The used ones are going for around $700-$800. The Stoeger/Mitchells aren't the best, quality wise. And most people tend to shy away from them.

Good Luck! Ron

gsonnenmd · 06-26-2005, 08:09 AM

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if the Mausers will transfer with a C&R license? I have a C&R and I thought I remember seeing them on the C&R list.

Do you know any good sources I should check on for a Mauser?

Thanks again,

Greg

Ron Smith · 06-26-2005, 09:24 AM

Greg,
I see that George Anderson directed you to Tom A's post. You can't go wrong there.

Tom and George are A-1 and can be trusted without hesitation. Both are very advanced collectors.

Ron

stymie · 06-27-2005, 12:50 AM

These are C&R Mauser Parabellums:

Luger, Model 1902 Cartridge Counter, Mauser commercial, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 9mm, mfd. 1982.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Kelsoreich Russiand, commemorative, cal. 9mm.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 76 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, commemorative, cal. 7.65mm.

Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 75 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Konigreich Bulgarian, commemorative, caliber 7.65mm.

Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978.

Mauser Luger, serial number 11.010034, 9mm, special engraving and ivory grips.

Mauser Luger, serial number RG 900/1001, 9mm, special engraving and walnut grips.

stymie · 06-27-2005, 12:56 AM

Simpson Ltd. has them from time to time...

For example: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2422

I have been told by Simpson Ltd. that a C&R FFL is sufficient for any of these Interarms Mauser Parabellums... however, it might be wise to verify with BATFE 1st!

Good luck with your quest!
NICE pistols

oneshy · 06-27-2005, 10:08 PM

Two months ago I received a NIB Interarms Mauser with my C&R. I did not even consider that it might be disqualified as it is based on or a replica of a firearm over 50 yr old. Those ATF rules can be read many different ways. Something like the Bible.

Edward Tinker · 06-28-2005, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oneshy
Two months ago I received a NIB Interarms Mauser with my C&R. I did not even consider that it might be disqualified as it is based on or a replica of a firearm over 50 yr old.

That is why it says 50 years or older unless it is on the list. Otherwise, then winchester 1894 30-30's made last year would qualify, as would the new colt 1911A1's, etc...

You really need to check the rules, but as an example, a friend got a "east" german Makarov (which is C&R) sent to him and it turned out to be a bulgie, which is not C&R... But I bought it from him and it makes a nice carry gun if I am so inclined

Ed

Steve71 · 06-28-2005, 02:24 AM

Greg,

Ron is right. You are doomed. A friend ask me awhile back if I wanted to buy a luger? I did, so I hooked up with these guys. Well, I thought I knew a lot about guns

If you think those 1911's are difficult, you just wait until you get sucked into these lugers. The bad part is that you can't learn everything you need to know so you have to rely on these guys to help you. Well, you have come to the right place. They are awesome!

So what do you think of Colts 1911 WWI "reissue"? I figured if I got one of those, I'd have one from each side of the trench.

Welcome to the forum!

Steve

Edward Tinker · 06-28-2005, 02:31 AM

Steve, when I want a solid piece of steel in my hand, I grab a 1911A1, not much better feels as good in my hand, although that is because for about 14 years I carried one for duty off and on

gsonnenmd · 06-28-2005, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve71
Greg,

Ron is right. You are doomed. A friend ask me awhile back if I wanted to buy a luger? I did, so I hooked up with these guys. Well, I thought I knew a lot about guns If you think those 1911's are difficult, you just wait until you get sucked into these lugers. The bad part is that you can't learn everything you need to know so you have to rely on these guys to help you. Well, you have come to the right place. They are awesome!

So what do you think of Colts 1911 WWI "reissue"? I figured if I got one of those, I'd have one from each side of the trench.

Welcome to the forum!

Steve

Steve,

If you can get one of the 1911 WWI reissue, do it. It is one of my favorite 1911's. You comment "Both sides of the trench" is exactly what I'm planning on doing. I want to set up a display with the WWI 1911 and a nice Luger replica (Interarms/Mauser). This forum is great. Thanks for everybodies' input.

Greg

oneshy · 06-28-2005, 07:43 AM

I understand about the rules, Ed. I bought the piece under the rule that it was a commemorative or of special interest or value due to........ I don't remember the rest. It wasn't necessary ( in my estimation) to find a specific mention of the item in the piece by piece list. This is what I mean by reading the rules different ways. I'm sorry I didn't clarify the statement about replicas in my earlier post.

Sieger · 06-28-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stymie
Simpson Ltd. has them from time to time...

For example: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2422

I have been told by Simpson Ltd. that a C&R FFL is sufficient for any of these Interarms Mauser Parabellums... however, it might be wise to verify with BATFE 1st!

Good luck with your quest!
NICE pistols

Hi:

I had the same discussion with Bob down there. There should be something in writing somewhere regarding the C&R status of these "non listed" Mauser pistols.

Where do we look for assurance, as a call to the BATFE yielded nothing but frustration for me.

Sieger

Edward Tinker · 06-28-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oneshy
I understand about the rules, Ed. I bought the piece under the rule that it was a commemorative or of special interest or value due to........ I don't remember the rest. It wasn't necessary ( in my estimation) to find a specific mention of the item in the piece by piece list. This is what I mean by reading the rules different ways. I'm sorry I didn't clarify the statement about replicas in my earlier post.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound cranky, didn't mean it that way. The "rules" are a pain in the rear of figuring out at times. As replica blackpowder is also like you say and they are brand new made.

Ed

Herb · 06-28-2005, 03:13 PM

Sieger, here is the current C&R list ---
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm
Here is an update that has a couple of Lugers on it --
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0603update.htm

Also go to bottom of the list and click 'Back' and it'll take you to other C&R info.

Sieger · 06-28-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herb
Sieger, here is the current C&R list ---
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm
Here is an update that a couple of Lugers on it --
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0603update.htm

Also go to bottom of the list and click 'Back' and it'll take you to other C&R info.

Dear Herb:

Thanks for your post. It verifies Stymies post above.

Clearly, if there is no update since their 2003 list, not all Mauser Parabellums are covered.

For instance:

The Navy Parabellum Commemorative

All of the non-commemorative P-08 frame Interarms Mausers

I guess, I still have the same concern. Would Bob be selling on C&R licences non C&R items? Not likely.

Sieger

Herb · 06-28-2005, 04:30 PM

It's possible that Simpson has mis-interpreted the C&R listing and is in fact selling them as such.

Steve71 · 06-28-2005, 05:15 PM

Ed,

I've never owned a 1911 but I want to get one. It's on my dream list. So where were you that you packed one for 14 years? Does your hip hurt

Steve

Steve71 · 06-28-2005, 05:23 PM

Ed,

I do own and carry a Sig P220 .45 and I love it. I'm a lefty so I really liked the no safety feature on the Sig. Whenever I grab a handgun with the safety on the wrong side, I'm all fumble fingers. Many of the new ones these days have the safety for either side. Can a guy switch the safety on a Colt? If so, I'll have to take a hard look at them. I do however want a Colt just to have a piece of history. I did pack a Ar in the Service and I learned to adapt. Even though the safety was on the wrong side, I learned to work it with no problem.

Steve

Steve71 · 06-28-2005, 05:31 PM

oops, I guess I should have said, I packed a M-16 in the service. The AR is the civilian semi-auto version. I was in the Air force "after" Vietnam and all I got to shoot was paper targets. I was a Secuirty Policeman which was a fancy term for a "guard". I did like it though. I got to be around those multi-million dollar aircraft. Oh we have some awesome firepower! I wish I was back in. I miss all of that!

Steve

06-25-2005, 10:45 PM	#1
gsonnenmd User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New collector question Howdy to eveybody. I'm new to this forum & have a few questions. I collect a variety of military sidearms, especially 1911's. I've never ventured into Lugermania. There are so many angles on collecting this gun, frankly I find it intimidating. Anyhow, I would like to get a "shooter" Luger. I've been eyeing & priceing Stoeger/Mitchells and Interarms/Mausers at local gunshows. I live near Dallas & we are blessed with some great shows. Can anyone give me some direction: which of these will be the most reliable? What is a reasonable price to pay for a NIB piece? (I'm looking for a 4" in 9mm). From what I've seen & handled, I like the Interarms/Mausers better, they feel like more solid construction. Thanks in advance, Greg

06-26-2005, 12:10 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Greg, Welcome to the forum. By the way, you are doomed. Of all of the post-war Lugers. By all means get a Mauser. They are aquiring a collector following. And are rapidly going up in value. If you can find one as new in the box for $800-$1000. I would go for it. The used ones are going for around $700-$800. The Stoeger/Mitchells aren't the best, quality wise. And most people tend to shy away from them. Good Luck! Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-26-2005, 09:24 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Greg, I see that George Anderson directed you to Tom A's post. You can't go wrong there. Tom and George are A-1 and can be trusted without hesitation. Both are very advanced collectors. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-28-2005, 02:24 AM	#9
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Greg, Ron is right. You are doomed. A friend ask me awhile back if I wanted to buy a luger? I did, so I hooked up with these guys. Well, I thought I knew a lot about guns If you think those 1911's are difficult, you just wait until you get sucked into these lugers. The bad part is that you can't learn everything you need to know so you have to rely on these guys to help you. Well, you have come to the right place. They are awesome! So what do you think of Colts 1911 WWI "reissue"? I figured if I got one of those, I'd have one from each side of the trench. Welcome to the forum! Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-28-2005, 03:13 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sieger, here is the current C&R list --- http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm Here is an update that has a couple of Lugers on it -- http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0603update.htm Also go to bottom of the list and click 'Back' and it'll take you to other C&R info. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

06-26-2005, 08:09 AM	#3
gsonnenmd User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Thanks for the reply. Do you know if the Mausers will transfer with a C&R license? I have a C&R and I thought I remember seeing them on the C&R list. Do you know any good sources I should check on for a Mauser? Thanks again, Greg

06-27-2005, 12:50 AM	#5
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	These are C&R Mauser Parabellums: Luger, Model 1902 Cartridge Counter, Mauser commercial, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 9mm, mfd. 1982. Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Kelsoreich Russiand, commemorative, cal. 9mm. Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 76 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, commemorative, cal. 7.65mm. Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 75 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Konigreich Bulgarian, commemorative, caliber 7.65mm. Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978. Mauser Luger, serial number 11.010034, 9mm, special engraving and ivory grips. Mauser Luger, serial number RG 900/1001, 9mm, special engraving and walnut grips.

06-27-2005, 12:56 AM	#6
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simpson Ltd. has them from time to time... For example: http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2422 I have been told by Simpson Ltd. that a C&R FFL is sufficient for any of these Interarms Mauser Parabellums... however, it might be wise to verify with BATFE 1st! Good luck with your quest! NICE pistols

06-27-2005, 10:08 PM	#7
oneshy User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houma,La Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Two months ago I received a NIB Interarms Mauser with my C&R. I did not even consider that it might be disqualified as it is based on or a replica of a firearm over 50 yr old. Those ATF rules can be read many different ways. Something like the Bible.

06-28-2005, 02:31 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Steve, when I want a solid piece of steel in my hand, I grab a 1911A1, not much better feels as good in my hand, although that is because for about 14 years I carried one for duty off and on

06-28-2005, 07:43 AM	#12
oneshy User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houma,La Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I understand about the rules, Ed. I bought the piece under the rule that it was a commemorative or of special interest or value due to........ I don't remember the rest. It wasn't necessary ( in my estimation) to find a specific mention of the item in the piece by piece list. This is what I mean by reading the rules different ways. I'm sorry I didn't clarify the statement about replicas in my earlier post.

06-28-2005, 04:30 PM	#17
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It's possible that Simpson has mis-interpreted the C&R listing and is in fact selling them as such. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

06-28-2005, 05:15 PM	#18
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I've never owned a 1911 but I want to get one. It's on my dream list. So where were you that you packed one for 14 years? Does your hip hurt Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-28-2005, 05:23 PM	#19
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I do own and carry a Sig P220 .45 and I love it. I'm a lefty so I really liked the no safety feature on the Sig. Whenever I grab a handgun with the safety on the wrong side, I'm all fumble fingers. Many of the new ones these days have the safety for either side. Can a guy switch the safety on a Colt? If so, I'll have to take a hard look at them. I do however want a Colt just to have a piece of history. I did pack a Ar in the Service and I learned to adapt. Even though the safety was on the wrong side, I learned to work it with no problem. Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".

06-28-2005, 05:31 PM	#20
Steve71 User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sumner, Wa. Posts: 130 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	oops, I guess I should have said, I packed a M-16 in the service. The AR is the civilian semi-auto version. I was in the Air force "after" Vietnam and all I got to shoot was paper targets. I was a Secuirty Policeman which was a fancy term for a "guard". I did like it though. I got to be around those multi-million dollar aircraft. Oh we have some awesome firepower! I wish I was back in. I miss all of that! Steve __________________ "Hey soldier, don't forget to pick up the Lugers. Someday, they'll be worth a lot of money".