Wiping my lugers

Major Tom · 03-15-2020, 12:46 PM

Every so often I take mt lugers out of the safe and wipe them down with a slightly oily rag. I've noticed that after doing this there are rust colored spots on the rag like I'm wiping off rust. I've been doing this for years with same results. Pistols do not show any rust on the finish. So, is this a result of the rust blueing they used back then? Finish, BTW, is not getting thinner.

DonVoigt · 03-15-2020, 03:01 PM

I've never seen or heard of such a phenomenon.

runscott · 03-15-2020, 03:04 PM

I may not be the best person to respond, but since responses in this forum can be infrequent, I'll throw out my thoughts. And I'm self-quarantined in Tacoma, WA, so I'm bored

Very thought-provoking question. Here are three ideas:

1) Anything you wipe onto a gun will eventually break down to some extent;e.g-if you break down an old gun to clean it, even if it was properly cleaned years ago, there will be residue that comes off onto your cloth that is not clear. So you might be seeing the remains of whatever you wiped onto it before, although 'oil', clp or Hoppes seems unlikely to do this.

2) Blueing is rust. If I get a 'new' old gun, and the finish looks not-so-great, I'll wipe it down with Fitz and there is always blackish residue on the cloth, even though the finish looks fine. I assume that's a very slight amount of finish that looks worse on the cloth then it actually is. So again, it depends on what that 'oil' is that you are wiping it with, but if it's actually blueing that is coming off, I'm sure it's minimal.

3) Try using a silicon-treated clothe instead. That's what I wipe mine down with every now and then, and there isn't any resulting residue.

Major Tom · 03-16-2020, 06:25 AM

I use CLP on all my firearms. This only happens on my lugers not on any other blued gun. I have meticulously cleaned my lugers inside and out, and finished with CLP.

DonVoigt · 03-16-2020, 08:16 AM

I'm not sure what the composition of CLP is- but you may want to switch to just plain oil or RIG.

Nothing should be coming off after multiple cleanings, JMHO. No way you could be having new
"rust" with constant cleaning and protection!

Sergio Natali · 03-16-2020, 09:10 AM

Never heard anything like that either.
I've always regularly cleaned all my collectibles with Ballistol and never had any issue.

Proofed · 03-16-2020, 02:52 PM

I use Ballistol and nothing else for cleaning new old guns and for storage. Before the range will oil the pistol then afterwards clean with Ballistol and put away. I've dealt with too much old oil and grease.

runscott · 03-16-2020, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

I use CLP on all my firearms. This only happens on my lugers not on any other blued gun.

I think what you just said may be a good clue. I have owned/have owned many antique blued revolvers in all conditions. I have only one Luger, and the blueing looks to be in about 75% condition. The blueing also looks very different than my old S&W's and Colts. I don't know if it's worse, but it's different. I'll give several of my blued guns a CLP wipe-down and see what ends up on the cloth.

Heinz · 03-16-2020, 03:34 PM

I have not used CLP. With Rig or my usual 3 in I oil I have never seen this on my Lugers. I do see this on my rust browned modern muzzleloaders.

HerrKaiser · 03-16-2020, 04:56 PM

I have always used Remoil and have had no issues like this with it. Even with some pistols that are not in ideal bluing shape.

ithacaartist · 03-17-2020, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runscott

...I have only one Luger, and the... blueing also looks very different than my old S&W's and Colts...

Another old-timey method of finishing guns was charcoal bluing--more like heat-staining of the top molecules on the surface to present a nice blue that's more transparent. Rust bluing actually is rust, so counts as an oxide finish. I'm pretty sure Colt and S&W used the former process in the early 20th century. Looks classy, but it's not as durable as other finishes.

Heinz · 03-17-2020, 09:16 PM

Smith used the "Carbonia Bluing" process. It used and oil and pine tar-based coating along with a heat treat. Smith produced the deep black blue and a fine gloss. Colt used a similar process on more matte finished guns producing a duller blue.

The Smith blue was very durable, far more so than a charcoal heat blue. My 1917 S&W Still has a great blue although there is holster wear.

runscott · 03-18-2020, 11:57 AM

Very interesting stuff - I assumed all of my blued guns were blued using the rust method. I had a 1920's S&W .44 which had a silvery sheen to its consistently-worn blueing, but I believe it's just due to heavy use over the years. From memory, it looked very similar to my 1918 Erfurt Luger and had about the same amount of wear.

RickJZ · 03-18-2020, 05:15 PM

The past Friday when I took out my model 1900 Luger, I experienced what Major Tom has mentioned regarding his Luger. At first I was quite perplexed since I have always carefully stored the pistol. The brownish color was close to the muzzle area. I immediately wiped it with oil and thankfully the residue came off. The bluing then took on its normal sheen.

4 Scale · 03-18-2020, 09:11 PM

I use Renaissance Wax on my pistols and even on the higher condition ones I tend to get a bit of the reddish-brownish tint on the q-tips or white cotton patches that I use for application of the wax. I get the same with Ballistol on a shooter, wiped with a clean patch.

I think I know why. Inspecting any original finish Luger under a stereo microscope at about 40x, there is some rust, even on high condition ones. Very minute on the nicer ones but it is there.

This is the Leica microscope I use, bought it years ago for a non-firearm project.

Sieger · 04-30-2020, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Natali

Never heard anything like that either.
I've always regularly cleaned all my collectibles with Ballistol and never had any issue.

Sergio,

Ballistol +1

Sieger

03-15-2020, 12:46 PM	#1
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 481 Thanks: 531 Thanked 226 Times in 123 Posts	Wiping my lugers Every so often I take mt lugers out of the safe and wipe them down with a slightly oily rag. I've noticed that after doing this there are rust colored spots on the rag like I'm wiping off rust. I've been doing this for years with same results. Pistols do not show any rust on the finish. So, is this a result of the rust blueing they used back then? Finish, BTW, is not getting thinner. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

03-15-2020, 03:01 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I've never seen or heard of such a phenomenon. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-16-2020, 06:25 AM	#4
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 481 Thanks: 531 Thanked 226 Times in 123 Posts	I use CLP on all my firearms. This only happens on my lugers not on any other blued gun. I have meticulously cleaned my lugers inside and out, and finished with CLP. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

03-16-2020, 08:16 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I'm not sure what the composition of CLP is- but you may want to switch to just plain oil or RIG. Nothing should be coming off after multiple cleanings, JMHO. No way you could be having new "rust" with constant cleaning and protection! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-16-2020, 09:10 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Never heard anything like that either. I've always regularly cleaned all my collectibles with Ballistol and never had any issue. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-15-2020, 03:04 PM	#3
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	I may not be the best person to respond, but since responses in this forum can be infrequent, I'll throw out my thoughts. And I'm self-quarantined in Tacoma, WA, so I'm bored Very thought-provoking question. Here are three ideas: 1) Anything you wipe onto a gun will eventually break down to some extent;e.g-if you break down an old gun to clean it, even if it was properly cleaned years ago, there will be residue that comes off onto your cloth that is not clear. So you might be seeing the remains of whatever you wiped onto it before, although 'oil', clp or Hoppes seems unlikely to do this. 2) Blueing is rust. If I get a 'new' old gun, and the finish looks not-so-great, I'll wipe it down with Fitz and there is always blackish residue on the cloth, even though the finish looks fine. I assume that's a very slight amount of finish that looks worse on the cloth then it actually is. So again, it depends on what that 'oil' is that you are wiping it with, but if it's actually blueing that is coming off, I'm sure it's minimal. 3) Try using a silicon-treated clothe instead. That's what I wipe mine down with every now and then, and there isn't any resulting residue.

03-16-2020, 02:52 PM	#7
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	I use Ballistol and nothing else for cleaning new old guns and for storage. Before the range will oil the pistol then afterwards clean with Ballistol and put away. I've dealt with too much old oil and grease.

03-16-2020, 03:34 PM	#9
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	I have not used CLP. With Rig or my usual 3 in I oil I have never seen this on my Lugers. I do see this on my rust browned modern muzzleloaders.

03-16-2020, 04:56 PM	#10
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	I have always used Remoil and have had no issues like this with it. Even with some pistols that are not in ideal bluing shape. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

03-17-2020, 09:16 PM	#12
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Smith used the "Carbonia Bluing" process. It used and oil and pine tar-based coating along with a heat treat. Smith produced the deep black blue and a fine gloss. Colt used a similar process on more matte finished guns producing a duller blue. The Smith blue was very durable, far more so than a charcoal heat blue. My 1917 S&W Still has a great blue although there is holster wear.

03-18-2020, 11:57 AM	#13
runscott User Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 36 Thanks: 10 Thanked 40 Times in 12 Posts	Very interesting stuff - I assumed all of my blued guns were blued using the rust method. I had a 1920's S&W .44 which had a silvery sheen to its consistently-worn blueing, but I believe it's just due to heavy use over the years. From memory, it looked very similar to my 1918 Erfurt Luger and had about the same amount of wear.

03-18-2020, 05:15 PM	#14
RickJZ User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts	The past Friday when I took out my model 1900 Luger, I experienced what Major Tom has mentioned regarding his Luger. At first I was quite perplexed since I have always carefully stored the pistol. The brownish color was close to the muzzle area. I immediately wiped it with oil and thankfully the residue came off. The bluing then took on its normal sheen.

03-18-2020, 09:11 PM	#15
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I use Renaissance Wax on my pistols and even on the higher condition ones I tend to get a bit of the reddish-brownish tint on the q-tips or white cotton patches that I use for application of the wax. I get the same with Ballistol on a shooter, wiped with a clean patch. I think I know why. Inspecting any original finish Luger under a stereo microscope at about 40x, there is some rust, even on high condition ones. Very minute on the nicer ones but it is there. This is the Leica microscope I use, bought it years ago for a non-firearm project. Attached Thumbnails