Barrel appears to be walking out?

alexmg2420 · 06-29-2020, 07:22 PM

Hello, all. New to the forum here. I’m having an issue with a P08 that I purchased a while back where my barrel appears to be walking out of the barrel extension. I’m not really sure how this is possible, since Luger barrels are supposed to be threaded in and are not press fit.

First of all, yes this appears to be some kind of aftermarket barrel, as you can see by the wrong barrel profile, fixed front sight, and amazingly clean rifling (not pictured). I got the gun for absolute peanuts, so I wasn't really worried about the fact that it's a mix-master with an aftermarket barrel. Despite my googling and searching on here, I still can't figure out what kind of barrel it is, but I digress.

Anyway, I shot the gun on a couple of range trips, but eventually it stopped firing. Upon inspection, I noticed the barrel has walked out of the barrel extension somehow, causing the cartridge to sit too far forward to make contact with the firing pin. The weird thing though is that it’s walking out straight forward, it’s not rotating like a loose screw-in barrel would. Based on the lack of threads visible in the gap that is now between the barrel and extension, it looks like the barrel is a press-fit, which it obviously shouldn’t be. Additionally, on the bottom of the extension where you’d expect to find witness marks, it looks like there’s some sort of indexing pin that’s been peened in place, and it looks like there’s a matching cutout in the barrel for this pin.

So basically my question is...what on earth is going on here? I am genuinely stumped as to what kind of barrel I have and how it could possibly be walking out of the barrel extension (apparently straight forward with no rotation). Has anyone ever heard of an issue like this in the past?

Edward Tinker · 06-29-2020, 07:56 PM

It appears to be a revolver barrel? Heck I don't know, but assume that the threads are smaller, so like when you screw in a nut onto a bolt and it holds, but not well and if you pull the right direction, it pulls free

I'd have it checked by a luger gunsmith - GT here on the forum could / should be able to re-barrel it or tell you if thats not possible

JTD · 06-29-2020, 10:01 PM

Get that to a good luger smith before it sees another round. Receiver may have been bored, and that barrel pressed in.

G.T. · 06-30-2020, 01:54 AM

Hi alexmg2420, and welcome to the forum parabellum.. This is a great place for info, and also a great place to enlist aid for your ailing Luger... First of all, don't shoot it anymore? You will run into pierced primers and other excessive headspace maladies...

...
It looks like an old revolver barrel to me, maybe it's all they had, when something is needed it's better than nothing?
If I was faced with a barreled receiver like yours, I would drill out the added retaining pin, and remove the barrel.. Then, I would run a tap into the receiver thread and straighten that out, and finally, re-barrel with a Luger barrel, new or used, of your choice.. If you would like to discuss the process that can make that happen, write me at: gctomeks@msn.com I am always willing to help new collectors and shooters, especially that are members of this forum.. we can work something out... Best to you, and again welcome, til...lat'r....GT

Doubs · 06-30-2020, 01:57 AM

If it's moving forward but not revolving, then I'd say the barrel has been installed as a press or slip fit and not screwed in.

I also agree that it looks like a revolver barrel and having moved out, it's not safe.

Take it to a qualified gunsmith and do not attempt to fire it again until it's properly repaired.

Listen to G.T. as he knows what he's talking about. I highly recommend him if you want it repaired properly.

DonVoigt · 06-30-2020, 09:08 AM

I'm with Doubs on this one, someone likely "removed" the receiver threads and "installed" by pressing or ?? a modified revolver barrel(.38 special or .357 = 9mm).

I believe you would best be served by purchasing a barreled receiver(upper) and retiring the one shown.

I believe the "pin" was a set screw, one can see the "dimple" in its remaining face where it was ground down.

Measure the diameter of the shank of the barrel that is showing, it should allow us to determine if there are threads left in the barrel or not. If it measures any larger than 18.0 mm or 0.71", then the threads have been removed or reduced.

sheepherder · 06-30-2020, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I believe you would best be served by purchasing a barreled receiver(upper) and retiring the one shown.

Yes on the new upper for center-fire shooting; but this upper could be re-configured for rimfire/.22 shooting.

It could have a plug silver-soldered/brazed in place and bored out to take a .22 replacement barrel. There have been several .22 toggle-trains for sale in the last year.

alexmg2420 · 06-30-2020, 10:40 AM

Thanks, everyone. So it seems I was on the right track by assuming it was some weird unknown barrel that was pressed in. At least I don't feel stupid for not being able to recognize an aftermarket barrel from some catalog back in the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

If I was faced with a barreled receiver like yours, I would drill out the added retaining pin, and remove the barrel.. Then, I would run a tap into the receiver thread and straighten that out, and finally, re-barrel with a Luger barrel, new or used, of your choice.

I have a mini mill and a press, so I almost want to drill out the pin and press the barrel out myself to satisfy my own curiosity, but I also don't want to bugger up any remaining threads for you.

I just measured the barrel shank and it's measuring 0.6765" or 17.17mm (at least according to my crappy Harbor Freight digital calipers). So maybe there's still threads in the receiver? Fingers crossed.

As far as safety issues, I got lucky. I didn't get any bulged or burst cases, but no way am I planning to try and shoot it as-is.

DonVoigt · 06-30-2020, 01:40 PM

Yes,
It sounds like you still have some or all the threads left!
Drill out the set screw, use a left hand drill if you have it and it may spin itself out.

I doubt you will need to press it out, it will probably just twist out by hand or vise.

G.T. · 06-30-2020, 02:25 PM

After thinking about this "hot mess" for awhile, I realized that there was an option we should consider, and that is to cut the barrel off and drill / mill, out the remained of the barrel stub / tenon, until we can pry out the remained, and address the pin from both inside and out? No reason that the receiver would not work, unless of course, cracked or squished??? Just me thinking out loud! Best, til...lat'r....GT....

rhuff · 06-30-2020, 03:31 PM

This is a very unusual situation, and I will follow it's progress with interest!!

DonVoigt · 06-30-2020, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

After thinking about this "hot mess" for awhile, I realized that there was an option we should consider, and that is to cut the barrel off and drill / mill, out the remained of the barrel stub / tenon, until we can pry out the remained, and address the pin from both inside and out? No reason that the receiver would not work, unless of course, cracked or squished??? Just me thinking out loud! Best, til...lat'r....GT....

GT,
You're making this sound more difficult than it likely is!

The barrel is already moving, if the set screw/pin is removed, it might just "fall" out ! JMHO.

G.T. · 06-30-2020, 11:16 PM

Hi Don, it could work out that way, but if the receiver is ruined from trying to extract the set screw, your all done.... and in the trash it goes.. my experience has been it's better to sacrifice the bad parts, and have access to both ends, then it is to drill, pound, drill and heat into submission... Just a little grinding to make all better?... Best to you my friend! Til....lat'r.....GT.....

mrerick · 07-01-2020, 09:54 AM

I imagine that the person that "fitted" this revolver barrel to the Luger ran up against the problem of thread angle (remember the preference for British "Whitworth" thread profile by DWM)...

Depending on the source of the "replacement" barrel, it's unlikely that it had the correct thread pitch and face angle, so any number of "adjustments" might have been committed.

This site describes the BSW thread:

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw4.htm

This is the Luger:

Doubs · 07-01-2020, 10:58 AM

The diagram of the BSW Luger barrel clearly shows the step in the chamber. Interesting.

alexmg2420 · 07-02-2020, 09:00 PM

Man, that's all great info! I'm really glad I asked about this "hot mess" now! G.T., I'll definitely be emailing you next week about this. I'm out of town for the weekend, but I can't wait to get to the bottom of this!

G.T. · 07-21-2020, 04:35 PM

Hi To all! Well, it's out, and all is well! At least we're onto the assembly leg of the barrel replacement sprint! A picture is to follow, as I'm not adapt at putting them / it, onto a forum post?... I'll see if Ed or Don, can make it so, should explain all.. .... Best to all.....til.....lat'r.....GT....

BTW, it's a No. 7 spiral Easy out, approx. .560" hole

posted ebt

hayhugh · 07-21-2020, 05:47 PM

So you cut the barrel and used an easy-out....

Looks like the barrel broke..No need for an easy out if you can grab hold of a good solid barrel?

mrerick · 07-21-2020, 06:08 PM

Was an adhesive originally used to hold it all together?

tomaustin · 07-21-2020, 06:13 PM

what happened to the pin ???

06-29-2020, 07:22 PM	#1
alexmg2420 New User Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Barrel appears to be walking out? Hello, all. New to the forum here. I’m having an issue with a P08 that I purchased a while back where my barrel appears to be walking out of the barrel extension. I’m not really sure how this is possible, since Luger barrels are supposed to be threaded in and are not press fit. First of all, yes this appears to be some kind of aftermarket barrel, as you can see by the wrong barrel profile, fixed front sight, and amazingly clean rifling (not pictured). I got the gun for absolute peanuts, so I wasn't really worried about the fact that it's a mix-master with an aftermarket barrel. Despite my googling and searching on here, I still can't figure out what kind of barrel it is, but I digress. Anyway, I shot the gun on a couple of range trips, but eventually it stopped firing. Upon inspection, I noticed the barrel has walked out of the barrel extension somehow, causing the cartridge to sit too far forward to make contact with the firing pin. The weird thing though is that it’s walking out straight forward, it’s not rotating like a loose screw-in barrel would. Based on the lack of threads visible in the gap that is now between the barrel and extension, it looks like the barrel is a press-fit, which it obviously shouldn’t be. Additionally, on the bottom of the extension where you’d expect to find witness marks, it looks like there’s some sort of indexing pin that’s been peened in place, and it looks like there’s a matching cutout in the barrel for this pin. So basically my question is...what on earth is going on here? I am genuinely stumped as to what kind of barrel I have and how it could possibly be walking out of the barrel extension (apparently straight forward with no rotation). Has anyone ever heard of an issue like this in the past? Attached Thumbnails

06-29-2020, 07:56 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	It appears to be a revolver barrel? Heck I don't know, but assume that the threads are smaller, so like when you screw in a nut onto a bolt and it holds, but not well and if you pull the right direction, it pulls free I'd have it checked by a luger gunsmith - GT here on the forum could / should be able to re-barrel it or tell you if thats not possible __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-30-2020, 01:54 AM	#4
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	re-barrel needed? looks like it! Hi alexmg2420, and welcome to the forum parabellum.. This is a great place for info, and also a great place to enlist aid for your ailing Luger... First of all, don't shoot it anymore? You will run into pierced primers and other excessive headspace maladies...... It looks like an old revolver barrel to me, maybe it's all they had, when something is needed it's better than nothing? If I was faced with a barreled receiver like yours, I would drill out the added retaining pin, and remove the barrel.. Then, I would run a tap into the receiver thread and straighten that out, and finally, re-barrel with a Luger barrel, new or used, of your choice.. If you would like to discuss the process that can make that happen, write me at: gctomeks@msn.com I am always willing to help new collectors and shooters, especially that are members of this forum.. we can work something out... Best to you, and again welcome, til...lat'r....GT

06-30-2020, 09:08 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I'm with Doubs on this one, someone likely "removed" the receiver threads and "installed" by pressing or ?? a modified revolver barrel(.38 special or .357 = 9mm). I believe you would best be served by purchasing a barreled receiver(upper) and retiring the one shown. I believe the "pin" was a set screw, one can see the "dimple" in its remaining face where it was ground down. Measure the diameter of the shank of the barrel that is showing, it should allow us to determine if there are threads left in the barrel or not. If it measures any larger than 18.0 mm or 0.71", then the threads have been removed or reduced. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-30-2020, 01:40 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Yes, It sounds like you still have some or all the threads left! Drill out the set screw, use a left hand drill if you have it and it may spin itself out. I doubt you will need to press it out, it will probably just twist out by hand or vise. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-29-2020, 10:01 PM	#3
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	Get that to a good luger smith before it sees another round. Receiver may have been bored, and that barrel pressed in.

06-30-2020, 01:57 AM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	If it's moving forward but not revolving, then I'd say the barrel has been installed as a press or slip fit and not screwed in. I also agree that it looks like a revolver barrel and having moved out, it's not safe. Take it to a qualified gunsmith and do not attempt to fire it again until it's properly repaired. Listen to G.T. as he knows what he's talking about. I highly recommend him if you want it repaired properly.

06-30-2020, 02:25 PM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Just thinking outloud!!! After thinking about this "hot mess" for awhile, I realized that there was an option we should consider, and that is to cut the barrel off and drill / mill, out the remained of the barrel stub / tenon, until we can pry out the remained, and address the pin from both inside and out? No reason that the receiver would not work, unless of course, cracked or squished??? Just me thinking out loud! Best, til...lat'r....GT....

06-30-2020, 03:31 PM	#11
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	This is a very unusual situation, and I will follow it's progress with interest!! __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

06-30-2020, 11:16 PM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	maybe so? Hi Don, it could work out that way, but if the receiver is ruined from trying to extract the set screw, your all done.... and in the trash it goes.. my experience has been it's better to sacrifice the bad parts, and have access to both ends, then it is to drill, pound, drill and heat into submission... Just a little grinding to make all better?... Best to you my friend! Til....lat'r.....GT.....

07-01-2020, 09:54 AM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I imagine that the person that "fitted" this revolver barrel to the Luger ran up against the problem of thread angle (remember the preference for British "Whitworth" thread profile by DWM)... Depending on the source of the "replacement" barrel, it's unlikely that it had the correct thread pitch and face angle, so any number of "adjustments" might have been committed. This site describes the BSW thread: https://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw4.htm This is the Luger: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-01-2020, 10:58 AM	#15
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	The diagram of the BSW Luger barrel clearly shows the step in the chamber. Interesting.

07-02-2020, 09:00 PM	#16
alexmg2420 New User Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Man, that's all great info! I'm really glad I asked about this "hot mess" now! G.T., I'll definitely be emailing you next week about this. I'm out of town for the weekend, but I can't wait to get to the bottom of this!

07-21-2020, 04:35 PM	#17
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	When immovable meets irresistible! Hi To all! Well, it's out, and all is well! At least we're onto the assembly leg of the barrel replacement sprint! A picture is to follow, as I'm not adapt at putting them / it, onto a forum post?... I'll see if Ed or Don, can make it so, should explain all.. .... Best to all.....til.....lat'r.....GT.... BTW, it's a No. 7 spiral Easy out, approx. .560" hole posted ebt Attached Thumbnails

07-21-2020, 05:47 PM	#18
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 882 Thanks: 848 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	So you cut the barrel and used an easy-out.... Looks like the barrel broke..No need for an easy out if you can grab hold of a good solid barrel?

07-21-2020, 06:08 PM	#19
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Was an adhesive originally used to hold it all together? __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-21-2020, 06:13 PM	#20
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	what happened to the pin ???