X-Ray or Cutaway View of P08???

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 01:35 AM

Does anyone have an X-Ray or cutaway view of the P08??? I need to troubleshoot a problem and a cutaway showing the relation of the barrel extension to the takedown lever would be most instructive.

(The animated GIF image at Pistole Parabellum doesn't show this area).

Thank You!

Major Tom · 09-18-2018, 08:50 AM

What exactly is the problem? What is it doing or not doing that is the problem? There is a tiny spring (not a coiled spring) mounted in the take down lever bore that can be worn. Simple replacement and they are readily available.

John Sabato · 09-18-2018, 01:47 PM

Check the Luger Mechanicals e-book by Gerard Henrotin… it should have cutaway illustrations that will help you. Please identify the issue you are experiencing...

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

What exactly is the problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Please identify the issue you are experiencing...

A picture is worth a dozen words...

Ron Wood · 09-18-2018, 04:02 PM

Wow, looks like a long receiver on a short frame but you would know if that was the case. So my only other guess would be either the lug on the receiver or the lug on the take down lever is worn/damaged.

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

So my only other guess would be either the lug on the receiver or the lug on the take down lever is worn/damaged.

We have a winnah!!!

And the consequence of that is the toggle ducktail hits the frame when racking the barrel extension, instead of dropping behind it. I have to rack it like an M1900 (pull back then up) rather than like a P08 (just pull up).

So I want to explore various remedies; shims, weld build up, peening, etc.

Pic of ducktail hitting frame...

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 04:51 PM

And I found a cutaway of a M1900 to study...

BTW: The protrusion is .035" past the frame...

Ron Wood · 09-18-2018, 08:39 PM

That is a Bulgarian frame.
Ron

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

That is a Bulgarian frame.
Ron

So, should I call it a 'M1900-Style'???

Ben M. · 09-18-2018, 08:51 PM

may be some help here
https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-conte...ction-plan.png

lugerholsterrepair · 09-18-2018, 09:00 PM

Could be the frame was ground to remove the serial number? It looks to be at an angle to me.

sheepherder · 09-18-2018, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

may be some help here
https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-conte...ction-plan.png

Thank You! That one is quite nice! I can see every detail!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Could be the frame was ground to remove the serial number? It looks to be at an angle to me.

Sorry, I should have identified it better. It's an Aimco clone. Aimco [Armas Intl. Mfg. Co. Inc.] puts the serial on the right side.

DonVoigt · 09-18-2018, 10:03 PM

Aimco- all bets are off!

I'd bet on a burr or deformation somewhere.

I would try a "good" upper on the lower, and the upper on a known good frame.
See how they fit.

4 Scale · 09-18-2018, 11:46 PM

Search YouTube or Google for 'Luger Animation' and similar. Here are a couple, there may be others. I have found the see-through aspects helpful in researching some function issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZ-DnTI_A8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw9g-CcrGW0

sheepherder · 09-19-2018, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Aimco- all bets are off!

I know! But it's an affliction...A disease...Stainlessitis!!!

And there's another one coming!!!

Oh, the horror...

Vlim · 09-19-2018, 11:16 AM

An X-ray.

Ron Wood · 09-19-2018, 11:46 AM

Aimco...sheesh, my face is a little bit red. The lack of a lanyard loop threw me off. I thought it was a polished Bulgarian. Should have looked a little bit closer at the toggle knobs.

sheepherder · 09-19-2018, 12:14 PM

Thank you all! I believe I have what I need now.

ithacaartist · 09-19-2018, 12:49 PM

Oops, I don't remember noticing this. If I did, I probably chalked it up to the reputed nature of these beasts for their huge tolerances among all the parts. The gun had worked OK during the several mags of ammo I put through it while I was its foster parent. I'd addressed a couple of issues involving metal displaced from use, and this issue would also be good to fix, if possible, to continue the pistol's "improvement."

(For everyone else reading this thread, I'll confess to selling this pistol to Rich, who was finally able to pick it up this week. I'd acquired it from another forum member several years ago and decided to pass it on after Rich tracked me down as the current owner, based on my posts in the WTS when it was sold to me back then.)

Now that we're into this issue, I'd go with the approach of building up the front surface of the lug. But first It would be good to check to see that this "adjustment" would affect anything else, such as the side plate's interface with the end of the sear bar/plunger.

sheepherder · 09-19-2018, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Oops, I don't remember noticing this....But first It would be good to check to see that this "adjustment" would affect anything else, such as the side plate's interface with the end of the sear bar/plunger.

If you are used to 'racking the slide' as you must do on a 1900-style Luger then it is not evident. (Pull back, then up). It does not affect function when shooting.

The advice on Unintended Consequences is sound. I'm trying to affix a small shim to the lug but I don't have a glue strong enough to hold it in place. I do have SuperGlue but I'm not sure I can get it off afterward. I would not want to contaminate a weld.

09-18-2018, 01:35 AM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	X-Ray or Cutaway View of P08??? Does anyone have an X-Ray or cutaway view of the P08??? I need to troubleshoot a problem and a cutaway showing the relation of the barrel extension to the takedown lever would be most instructive. (The animated GIF image at Pistole Parabellum doesn't show this area). Thank You! __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-18-2018, 08:50 AM	#2
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 484 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	What exactly is the problem? What is it doing or not doing that is the problem? There is a tiny spring (not a coiled spring) mounted in the take down lever bore that can be worn. Simple replacement and they are readily available. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

09-18-2018, 01:47 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Check the Luger Mechanicals e-book by Gerard Henrotin… it should have cutaway illustrations that will help you. Please identify the issue you are experiencing... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-18-2018, 04:02 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Wow, looks like a long receiver on a short frame but you would know if that was the case. So my only other guess would be either the lug on the receiver or the lug on the take down lever is worn/damaged. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-18-2018, 04:51 PM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	And I found a cutaway of a M1900 to study... BTW: The protrusion is .035" past the frame... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-18-2018, 08:39 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	That is a Bulgarian frame. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-18-2018, 08:51 PM	#10
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	may be some help here https://drawingdatabase.com/wp-conte...ction-plan.png

09-18-2018, 09:00 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Could be the frame was ground to remove the serial number? It looks to be at an angle to me. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-18-2018, 10:03 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Aimco- all bets are off! I'd bet on a burr or deformation somewhere. I would try a "good" upper on the lower, and the upper on a known good frame. See how they fit. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-18-2018, 11:46 PM	#14
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Search YouTube or Google for 'Luger Animation' and similar. Here are a couple, there may be others. I have found the see-through aspects helpful in researching some function issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DZ-DnTI_A8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw9g-CcrGW0

09-19-2018, 11:16 AM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	An X-ray. Attached Thumbnails

09-19-2018, 11:46 AM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Aimco...sheesh, my face is a little bit red. The lack of a lanyard loop threw me off. I thought it was a polished Bulgarian. Should have looked a little bit closer at the toggle knobs. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-19-2018, 12:14 PM	#18
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Thank you all! I believe I have what I need now. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-19-2018, 12:49 PM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,277 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Oops, I don't remember noticing this. If I did, I probably chalked it up to the reputed nature of these beasts for their huge tolerances among all the parts. The gun had worked OK during the several mags of ammo I put through it while I was its foster parent. I'd addressed a couple of issues involving metal displaced from use, and this issue would also be good to fix, if possible, to continue the pistol's "improvement." (For everyone else reading this thread, I'll confess to selling this pistol to Rich, who was finally able to pick it up this week. I'd acquired it from another forum member several years ago and decided to pass it on after Rich tracked me down as the current owner, based on my posts in the WTS when it was sold to me back then.) Now that we're into this issue, I'd go with the approach of building up the front surface of the lug. But first It would be good to check to see that this "adjustment" would affect anything else, such as the side plate's interface with the end of the sear bar/plunger. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894