New member, First Luger, Your opinions?

RShaw · 11-22-2016, 04:32 PM

Hi All,
I have just discovered this forum and I am very impressed with the knowledge here, as well as the very helpful atmosphere. I live in the Netherlands, on the German border, and have just acquired a P08 DWM. All matching parts, including 1 matched magazine and one spare. The matching mag has the original ebony base. The base of the spare looks like another material - perhaps one of you experts can tell from the enclosed photos? The marked mag on the right is the spare- no other numbers on it. The other on the left is the matched mag.
Could some of you estimate the collector value? I would like to use the gun as a shooter, but I can understand the 2 big options out there for special firearms 1- keeping as a safe queen, and 2. taking it out and shooting it, but taking very good care of it. I would really appreciate your feedback here.
Thanks in advance for your responses! I couldn't pass this up... it's beautiful really... and I've always wanted to shoot one of these...

DonVoigt · 11-22-2016, 04:47 PM

Hi and welcome.
Many of us would consider a matching 1917 DWM with matching magazine too valuable to shoot- for if one breaks a numbered part, he would take a hit of about 1/3 the value of the piece.

The spare mag is made in Switzerland, and the base is dark plastic- The original matching magazine base is walnut, not ebony. The Swiss mags are excellent shooting magazines; the P on the back is the mfg.

I'd find another one to shoot! In the US your luger would go from $1500 to $2500 depending on where, when, and how sold. It is a keeper for sure.

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2016, 04:52 PM

I have been through Venlo on several occasions. Lived near Maastrict for 7 yrs

Army at Schinnen

As Don said, I wouldn't shoot it much, probably just keep it safe.

Ed

RShaw · 11-22-2016, 05:10 PM

Ed, Don,
Many thanks for your instant answers! Any comments on the markings shown would be greatly appreciated.... Please see some additional photos below:
I will take your advice and look for another shooter.... I was thinking in that direction anyway; your comments are a real help.
Also your comments on general condition and any faults you can see would be most welcome.
Thanks for both your time.....
Ed, Maastricht is a wonderful place... glad you have had the chance to live near there....The Christmas market is great!
Cheers,
Robert

Edward Tinker · 11-22-2016, 05:59 PM

you will see the last two of the four digit serial number (or 3 digit or 2 digit) on all the small parts

the markings on the right side are acceptance and proof marks

the marking on the left side of the breechblock is a proof marking

Ed

DavidJayUden · 11-22-2016, 06:58 PM

Absolutely do NOT use the original numbered magazine IF you choose to shoot it. Those old wooden bases are fragile and may not take the spring pressure.
A very nice gun!
What legal restrictions on ownership do you have in the Netherlands?
David Uden

DonVoigt · 11-22-2016, 08:39 PM

Do have a look at the frequently asked questions in post #2 of this thread:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Read them, study the pictures and read again for a quick lesson in "Luger".

mrerick · 11-22-2016, 09:51 PM

Hi Robert, and welcome to the forum.

Nice find. It's a collectable Luger and a keeper.

If you have a holster, do NOT store it in the holster. Keep it separate and not in contact with the leather (which can damage the finish over time).

The main reason for not shooting it is the potential for damaging a numbered part. These can be very difficult to replace. The side plate (which is also numbered on the inside) is one of 10,000 that matches the serial number of your pistol. Parts can and do break on these 100 year old pistols.

Eugen · 11-22-2016, 10:16 PM

RShaw, welcome to the forum and congrats on your very nice luger. Invest some time reading the FAQ section as you will benefit immensely.

RShaw · 11-23-2016, 03:54 AM

Hi Ed, Don, Eugen, DavidJay, Mrerick,

MANY thanks for your very helpful responses, and the reference to the FAQ's... fascinating reading....

I am posting in "General Discussions" a short summary of the legalities of firearm ownership in the Netherlands (answer for you, DavidJay) - very different from the US!

lugerholsterrepair · 11-23-2016, 11:36 AM

DWM Lugers are much more prone to breakage than Mausers..Mauser went to great lengths to improve breakage issues. Shoot a DWM enough and it WILL break eventually, sooner or later. I have broken at least a half dozen parts on DWM's over the years. History has given you this pistol complete and intact. Cherish it. Find a shooter.

Eugen · 11-23-2016, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

DWM Lugers are much more prone to breakage than Mausers..Mauser went to great lengths to improve breakage issues. Shoot a DWM enough and it WILL break eventually, sooner or later.

Wow, Jerry, I didn't know that?!

(note to self: I am so happy my entire collection (3.5 Lugers to be exact) are Mausers.)

Just joking of course.

RShaw · 11-23-2016, 01:15 PM

Eugen, Jerry....
Many thanks for the comments- would take years to learn this kind of thing on my own. I will look for a Mauser shooter and keep this one safe. I would really like to shoot a Luger some day though. The friend from whom I acquired this DWM got it from a collector who shot it only once or twice- was then stored it for 15 years until now. I would like to do a simple strip just to be more familiar with this gun, clean and lube it and then reassemble it and store.
I do not have a holster, but would not store it in the holster anyway because of moisture collection issues. I store it in a safe on a stand, rather than placing it flat on the cloth mat on the floor of the safe.
One other reason for buying this firearm is because I worked in Germany for 27 years and have come to know the German people quite well. Ingenious craftsmanship and engineering! It's the first Luger I have seen in real life, and when I understood it was for sale..... I could not pass it up.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-23-2016, 01:35 PM

Robert, I could not pass it up.You did the right thing!

Taking proper care of any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, know her quirks and habits, treat her carefully and well. You forgot something..keep her well oiled.

Eugen · 11-23-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

... know the German people quite well. Ingenious craftsmanship and engineering! It's the first Luger I have seen in real life, and when I understood it was for sale..... I could not pass it up.

You said that well. In fact just this past April I encountered my first Luger P.08. I never held one before. Once I held it, it was impossible to not see the obvious quality, craftsmanship and other superlatives of the German design and engineering so well know of the German people. I have never been to Germany but appreciate what the German's make based on their engineering fame.

I had to own that Luger. I couldn't put it down. Then I acquired another one a month later

mrerick · 11-23-2016, 02:42 PM

I also share this respect for German engineering and craftsmanship. That (and the history) is why I collect Lugers.

As Jerry mentioned, the metallurgy of the steel used in Luger production improved over the years. The alloys used in Mauser's production in the 1930's and 1940's is stronger and better understood than the steel used 25 years earlier. Of course, that is the way of materials science, and Germany was at the forefront of this work in that era. Details are available in Sturgess' book on the Luger.

Marc

ithacaartist · 11-23-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

...I would like to do a simple strip just to be more familiar with this gun, clean and lube it and then reassemble it and store...

A good tool for helping you to understand all the mechanical relationships involved would be to buy a copy of Gerard Henrotin's "Luger Mechanical Features." http://users.skynet.be/pro1258/ It may be the best $7.95 you ever spend. The Luger system is explained very well, which aids in understanding the design and function of our favorite pistol!

Your first step, acquiring this top-notch example, indicates that you are off to a very good start. Welcome, and enjoy!

lugerholsterrepair · 11-23-2016, 08:05 PM

the metallurgy of the steel used in Luger production improved over the years. Well there's that but Mauser did much more..the Mauser "hump", beefing up the extractor retaining hook and fluting the firing pin are a couple of examples too.

RShaw · 11-25-2016, 04:47 PM

Hi All,
Many thanks for all the great feedback- I clearly have some inspiring work to do...
My next job is to find a great shooter

I really don't think I'm going to shoot this gun
before having it thoroughly checked out. Even then.. I doubt it.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-25-2016, 08:52 PM

You are a wise man and will become a history conservationist. They just ain't making these no more.

11-22-2016, 04:32 PM	#1
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	New member, First Luger, Your opinions? Hi All, I have just discovered this forum and I am very impressed with the knowledge here, as well as the very helpful atmosphere. I live in the Netherlands, on the German border, and have just acquired a P08 DWM. All matching parts, including 1 matched magazine and one spare. The matching mag has the original ebony base. The base of the spare looks like another material - perhaps one of you experts can tell from the enclosed photos? The marked mag on the right is the spare- no other numbers on it. The other on the left is the matched mag. Could some of you estimate the collector value? I would like to use the gun as a shooter, but I can understand the 2 big options out there for special firearms 1- keeping as a safe queen, and 2. taking it out and shooting it, but taking very good care of it. I would really appreciate your feedback here. Thanks in advance for your responses! I couldn't pass this up... it's beautiful really... and I've always wanted to shoot one of these... Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-22-2016, 05:10 PM	#4
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	New member, first Luger, Your opinions? Ed, Don, Many thanks for your instant answers! Any comments on the markings shown would be greatly appreciated.... Please see some additional photos below: I will take your advice and look for another shooter.... I was thinking in that direction anyway; your comments are a real help. Also your comments on general condition and any faults you can see would be most welcome. Thanks for both your time..... Ed, Maastricht is a wonderful place... glad you have had the chance to live near there....The Christmas market is great! Cheers, Robert Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-22-2016, 08:39 PM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Do have a look at the frequently asked questions in post #2 of this thread: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121 Read them, study the pictures and read again for a quick lesson in "Luger". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

11-22-2016, 09:51 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Robert, and welcome to the forum. Nice find. It's a collectable Luger and a keeper. If you have a holster, do NOT store it in the holster. Keep it separate and not in contact with the leather (which can damage the finish over time). The main reason for not shooting it is the potential for damaging a numbered part. These can be very difficult to replace. The side plate (which is also numbered on the inside) is one of 10,000 that matches the serial number of your pistol. Parts can and do break on these 100 year old pistols. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-22-2016, 10:16 PM	#9
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 757 Thanks: 366 Thanked 594 Times in 313 Posts	RShaw, welcome to the forum and congrats on your very nice luger. Invest some time reading the FAQ section as you will benefit immensely. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

11-22-2016, 04:47 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Hi and welcome. Many of us would consider a matching 1917 DWM with matching magazine too valuable to shoot- for if one breaks a numbered part, he would take a hit of about 1/3 the value of the piece. The spare mag is made in Switzerland, and the base is dark plastic- The original matching magazine base is walnut, not ebony. The Swiss mags are excellent shooting magazines; the P on the back is the mfg. I'd find another one to shoot! In the US your luger would go from $1500 to $2500 depending on where, when, and how sold. It is a keeper for sure. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

11-22-2016, 04:52 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I have been through Venlo on several occasions. Lived near Maastrict for 7 yrs Army at Schinnen As Don said, I wouldn't shoot it much, probably just keep it safe. Ed

11-22-2016, 05:59 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	you will see the last two of the four digit serial number (or 3 digit or 2 digit) on all the small parts the markings on the right side are acceptance and proof marks the marking on the left side of the breechblock is a proof marking Ed

11-22-2016, 06:58 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Absolutely do NOT use the original numbered magazine IF you choose to shoot it. Those old wooden bases are fragile and may not take the spring pressure. A very nice gun! What legal restrictions on ownership do you have in the Netherlands? David Uden

11-23-2016, 03:54 AM	#10
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi Ed, Don, Eugen, DavidJay, Mrerick, MANY thanks for your very helpful responses, and the reference to the FAQ's... fascinating reading.... I am posting in "General Discussions" a short summary of the legalities of firearm ownership in the Netherlands (answer for you, DavidJay) - very different from the US! __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-23-2016, 11:36 AM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	DWM Lugers are much more prone to breakage than Mausers..Mauser went to great lengths to improve breakage issues. Shoot a DWM enough and it WILL break eventually, sooner or later. I have broken at least a half dozen parts on DWM's over the years. History has given you this pistol complete and intact. Cherish it. Find a shooter. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-23-2016, 01:15 PM	#13
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Eugen, Jerry.... Many thanks for the comments- would take years to learn this kind of thing on my own. I will look for a Mauser shooter and keep this one safe. I would really like to shoot a Luger some day though. The friend from whom I acquired this DWM got it from a collector who shot it only once or twice- was then stored it for 15 years until now. I would like to do a simple strip just to be more familiar with this gun, clean and lube it and then reassemble it and store. I do not have a holster, but would not store it in the holster anyway because of moisture collection issues. I store it in a safe on a stand, rather than placing it flat on the cloth mat on the floor of the safe. One other reason for buying this firearm is because I worked in Germany for 27 years and have come to know the German people quite well. Ingenious craftsmanship and engineering! It's the first Luger I have seen in real life, and when I understood it was for sale..... I could not pass it up. __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-23-2016, 01:35 PM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Robert, I could not pass it up.You did the right thing! Taking proper care of any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, know her quirks and habits, treat her carefully and well. You forgot something..keep her well oiled. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-23-2016, 02:42 PM	#16
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I also share this respect for German engineering and craftsmanship. That (and the history) is why I collect Lugers. As Jerry mentioned, the metallurgy of the steel used in Luger production improved over the years. The alloys used in Mauser's production in the 1930's and 1940's is stronger and better understood than the steel used 25 years earlier. Of course, that is the way of materials science, and Germany was at the forefront of this work in that era. Details are available in Sturgess' book on the Luger. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-23-2016, 08:05 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	the metallurgy of the steel used in Luger production improved over the years. Well there's that but Mauser did much more..the Mauser "hump", beefing up the extractor retaining hook and fluting the firing pin are a couple of examples too. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-25-2016, 04:47 PM	#19
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi All, Many thanks for all the great feedback- I clearly have some inspiring work to do... My next job is to find a great shooter I really don't think I'm going to shoot this gun before having it thoroughly checked out. Even then.. I doubt it. __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-25-2016, 08:52 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	You are a wise man and will become a history conservationist. They just ain't making these no more. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."