New Luger, no date, no proofs, but Military numbers

DavidJayUden · 01-07-2013, 09:53 PM

I just picked up, from a fellow forum member, a DWM 9mm, standard P08 configuration with the numbered hold-open and stock lug. What I find interesting is that it is numbered (matching) throughout in the military fashion, however there is no chamber date, no acceptance or proof markings on the left or right side, etc. There is one WW1 style breechblock proof. Serial number is 9825 h. Grip panels are un-numbered but one has an inspector's "S". Some markings I can't make out on the front of the front sight base. Safety and extracter both spelled in German fashion. And there may be a very small dot punched just behind the numbers rear of the barrel base on the left side.
Here are a few photos. Hope someone can explain just where this one fell on the food chain.
Thanks for looking.
dju

DavidJayUden · 01-07-2013, 09:57 PM

Couple more...

Edward Tinker · 01-07-2013, 10:20 PM

David, is that a 'k'?

If a K then a new made for the military, but why it doesn't have any acceptance or proofs is odd.

If an H, then it is possible it was 'unmiliterized' and sold to the public or the USA after being reworked by a german firm, as lots of that happened during the 1920's...

Ed

tomaustin · 01-07-2013, 10:34 PM

described to you at the time of your purchase....?

DavidJayUden · 01-07-2013, 10:38 PM

Ed:
As best as I can tell the suffix matches the 1918 DWM "h" as shown in the technical files.

Tom:
Glad you got the package. This was described to me as a "blank chamber" gun. The rest was basically "I don't know". So I rolled the dice, figuring that it would be a nice shooter if all else fails.

dju

DavidJayUden · 01-09-2013, 12:09 PM

Let's have some more learned opinions or unfounded speculation on this one. I could use a tall tale when it comes time to sell it...
dju

mrerick · 01-09-2013, 03:30 PM

David, My 1917 lP08 is from the "k" block, and it has a die stamp that looks very similar to the one on your undated p.08

the loop on top of the letter, the upturned tail on the right...

But I can see that the center of the right hand loop on your suffix doesn't tough the vertical staff, and there is an additional 45 degree mark going the the right at the center of my letter....

Perhaps yours is something put together by DWM after WW-I from WW-I surplus (and partially proofed) parts. A true "sneak" in 9mm...

Marc

DavidJayUden · 01-10-2013, 04:53 PM

It definitely has a story to tell.
dju

skeeter4206 · 01-10-2013, 05:27 PM

I'm going with a "k"

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DavidJayUden · 01-16-2013, 08:15 AM

What are the ramifications of the H or K suffix in explaining the mystery of the numbers/date/markiings?
dju

Lugerdoc · 01-26-2013, 08:20 AM

It sounds as though we may be approaching the old discussion of "Riff" contract lugers. TH PS: Whether they actually existed doesn't negate an interesting story.

Edward Tinker · 01-26-2013, 08:35 AM

I asked because an h would HAVE TO BE PRE ww1 while a 'k' could be during or after WW1

lugersrkewl · 01-26-2013, 11:32 AM

an alphabet commercial put into military use with a replacement breachblock? ( dont hurt me )

Dwight Gruber · 01-26-2013, 02:38 PM

From the pictures, I would say that the right receiver stamps and "somethning"--probably a date--on the receiver have been rremoved.

--Dwight

CJS57 · 01-26-2013, 09:09 PM

Could be a regular DWM military but with a replacement barrel extension.

el_loco · 01-27-2013, 09:56 AM

i see a "k".

imho parts were replaced.

reason:
surely i cant compare my collection with yours, but i never saw different stamp-styles at one weapon.

now compare the "2" at the barrel and at the front of the frame, they are different.
also look at the pic, what mrerick postet: even in that angle you can see, that the numbers of the barrel and frame have the same style. and that is original.

regards
klaus

01-07-2013, 09:53 PM	#1
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	New Luger, no date, no proofs, but Military numbers I just picked up, from a fellow forum member, a DWM 9mm, standard P08 configuration with the numbered hold-open and stock lug. What I find interesting is that it is numbered (matching) throughout in the military fashion, however there is no chamber date, no acceptance or proof markings on the left or right side, etc. There is one WW1 style breechblock proof. Serial number is 9825 h. Grip panels are un-numbered but one has an inspector's "S". Some markings I can't make out on the front of the front sight base. Safety and extracter both spelled in German fashion. And there may be a very small dot punched just behind the numbers rear of the barrel base on the left side. Here are a few photos. Hope someone can explain just where this one fell on the food chain. Thanks for looking. dju Attached Thumbnails

01-07-2013, 09:57 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Couple more... Attached Thumbnails

01-07-2013, 10:34 PM	#4
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	david, got the package,,,thank you !...btw, how was this pistol described to you at the time of your purchase....?

01-09-2013, 03:30 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	"k" Block David, My 1917 lP08 is from the "k" block, and it has a die stamp that looks very similar to the one on your undated p.08 the loop on top of the letter, the upturned tail on the right... But I can see that the center of the right hand loop on your suffix doesn't tough the vertical staff, and there is an additional 45 degree mark going the the right at the center of my letter.... Perhaps yours is something put together by DWM after WW-I from WW-I surplus (and partially proofed) parts. A true "sneak" in 9mm... Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-26-2013, 08:20 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	It sounds as though we may be approaching the old discussion of "Riff" contract lugers. TH PS: Whether they actually existed doesn't negate an interesting story. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-07-2013, 10:20 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	David, is that a 'k'? If a K then a new made for the military, but why it doesn't have any acceptance or proofs is odd. If an H, then it is possible it was 'unmiliterized' and sold to the public or the USA after being reworked by a german firm, as lots of that happened during the 1920's... Ed

01-07-2013, 10:38 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Ed: As best as I can tell the suffix matches the 1918 DWM "h" as shown in the technical files. Tom: Glad you got the package. This was described to me as a "blank chamber" gun. The rest was basically "I don't know". So I rolled the dice, figuring that it would be a nice shooter if all else fails. dju

01-09-2013, 12:09 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Let's have some more learned opinions or unfounded speculation on this one. I could use a tall tale when it comes time to sell it... dju

01-10-2013, 04:53 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It definitely has a story to tell. dju

01-10-2013, 05:27 PM	#9
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I'm going with a "k"

01-16-2013, 08:15 AM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	What are the ramifications of the H or K suffix in explaining the mystery of the numbers/date/markiings? dju

01-26-2013, 08:35 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I asked because an h would HAVE TO BE PRE ww1 while a 'k' could be during or after WW1

01-26-2013, 11:32 AM	#13
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	an alphabet commercial put into military use with a replacement breachblock? ( dont hurt me )

01-26-2013, 02:38 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	From the pictures, I would say that the right receiver stamps and "somethning"--probably a date--on the receiver have been rremoved. --Dwight

01-26-2013, 09:09 PM	#15
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	Could be a regular DWM military but with a replacement barrel extension.

01-27-2013, 09:56 AM	#16
el_loco Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: bavaria - germany Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	i see a "k". imho parts were replaced. reason: surely i cant compare my collection with yours, but i never saw different stamp-styles at one weapon. now compare the "2" at the barrel and at the front of the frame, they are different. also look at the pic, what mrerick postet: even in that angle you can see, that the numbers of the barrel and frame have the same style. and that is original. regards klaus __________________ Extra Bavariam nulla vita, et si est vita, non est ita