1913 dwm

Katia · 06-20-2019, 08:44 PM

Hi everyone, thank you for this site. This is my first post here. I inherited a 1913 DWM with a s/n of 259, does it make much difference in the value if you have a lower #? I have done all the research i could on this firearm. I received it with a 1938 leather holster and tool. Matching numbers except magazine, unless it was pulled apart and reengineered. It also has stamped "45. R.M.G. 71." on the front handle strap. The bluing is about a 90, guessing from what i have seen and the grip is worn a little in all the right places. If anyone can provide a little guidance on the s/n and the 45RMG71, or point me in the right direction as where to find this info please do so. The story of how this landed with me is that my grandfather brought it back with him from WW2. I will try to post a few pics as soon as i figure it out.

thanks for reading

k98mike · 06-20-2019, 08:58 PM

Serial numbers run in 10,000 blocks; 1-10,000- then 1-10,000 a, then 1-10,000 b, 1-10,000 c etc. The gripstrap marking is a unit from the first world war, or a police unit marking. Believe me, the guys on this forum will be able to tell you much more..but they will need the pics. Mike

ithacaartist · 06-20-2019, 09:14 PM

Welcome to the forum, Katia, and to "Luger University," as this particular collecting mania is often called.

A low serial number isn't particularly important for a military Luger because they were manufactured in blocks of 10,000, and after each block the numerical sequence started over. If there's a cursive letter stamped below the number on the front of the frame under the barrel, it's a part of the serial number as well.

The top part of the New Collectors' section has "stickies" that are very informative, and among them is the FAQ .pdf document I recommend downloading for study.

We'd also like to see some good pics of what you've inherited. I think there's a sticky explaining what should be included, and another one explaining how to get the best photographic results.

Your unit marking on the front grip strap will probably be more straightforward to solve. Although I'm not one, there are other members who are very knowledgeable about this aspect of Lugers.

You've come to the right place for info and guidance because several here are world class authors on the subject, in addition to probably centuries of cumulative Luger experience.

Enjoy!

DonVoigt · 06-20-2019, 11:08 PM

45.R.M.G.71. would indicate Imperial Army use not police;
the Machine Gun Company of the 45 Regiment, weapon number 71.

Later on regiments added additional machine gun companies, and would add the company(kompany) number
and it would look something like 45.R. 4.K. xxx. - with xxx for the weapon number using 1 to three digits.

Low numbers, unless they are like single digits or some other number a specific person chases afd no more scarce, nor worth more than a high number, like 10,000!

Welcome to the board- and there is much more info here- you just have to read!

cirelaw · 06-21-2019, 11:42 AM

Does it have a stock lug or not?

Katia · 06-21-2019, 12:46 PM

Thank you everyone for your reply, there is some very interesting reading here. There is no cursive letter below the s/n. There is no stock lug. Assuming it is just your ordinary 1913 DWM sidearm. Once i clean it up a bit, I will post a few pics. Katia

Katia · 06-21-2019, 01:03 PM

It does have matching wood stock numbers

mrerick · 06-21-2019, 02:08 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum. You'll probably find the reference information we've published in our FAQ document useful. Just follow the FAQ link at the top of forum pages.

If you can post some properly lit photos with sharp focus on detail and external markings, we can be of more help assisting your evaluation of your Luger. Take photos with a camera that can focus and in shaded natural light instead of using a flash.

Usually, low serial numbers don't make much difference in valuation.

HerrKaiser · 06-21-2019, 05:12 PM

Kurusu,

The LP08 was introduced in 1913, nominally at least. Isn’t the cutoff for frames with stock lugs as the standard sometime in that year? This one being such a low serial number in the year is unlikely to have had it though.

George Anderson · 06-21-2019, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

All frames with "stock lugs" only started in 1914.

Not correct. The first stock lugs appear on 1902 carbines. They also appear on late 1913 military P 08s.

DonVoigt · 06-21-2019, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Not correct. The first stock lugs appear on 1902 carbines. They also appear on late 1913 military P 08s.

Not to mention Navy '04 models.

Pistol · 06-21-2019, 11:43 PM

Would love to see the photos of the gun and mags

wlyon · 06-22-2019, 10:07 AM

I have a 1913 serial number 4012b with a stock lug. Bill

cirelaw · 06-22-2019, 11:21 AM

Here are three, Early without stock lug, 1913 Erfurt w/o stock lug, 1913 DWM with stock lug,

06-20-2019, 08:44 PM	#1
Katia New User Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	1913 dwm Hi everyone, thank you for this site. This is my first post here. I inherited a 1913 DWM with a s/n of 259, does it make much difference in the value if you have a lower #? I have done all the research i could on this firearm. I received it with a 1938 leather holster and tool. Matching numbers except magazine, unless it was pulled apart and reengineered. It also has stamped "45. R.M.G. 71." on the front handle strap. The bluing is about a 90, guessing from what i have seen and the grip is worn a little in all the right places. If anyone can provide a little guidance on the s/n and the 45RMG71, or point me in the right direction as where to find this info please do so. The story of how this landed with me is that my grandfather brought it back with him from WW2. I will try to post a few pics as soon as i figure it out. thanks for reading

06-20-2019, 09:14 PM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Welcome to the forum, Katia, and to "Luger University," as this particular collecting mania is often called. A low serial number isn't particularly important for a military Luger because they were manufactured in blocks of 10,000, and after each block the numerical sequence started over. If there's a cursive letter stamped below the number on the front of the frame under the barrel, it's a part of the serial number as well. The top part of the New Collectors' section has "stickies" that are very informative, and among them is the FAQ .pdf document I recommend downloading for study. We'd also like to see some good pics of what you've inherited. I think there's a sticky explaining what should be included, and another one explaining how to get the best photographic results. Your unit marking on the front grip strap will probably be more straightforward to solve. Although I'm not one, there are other members who are very knowledgeable about this aspect of Lugers. You've come to the right place for info and guidance because several here are world class authors on the subject, in addition to probably centuries of cumulative Luger experience. Enjoy! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

06-20-2019, 11:08 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	45.R.M.G.71. would indicate Imperial Army use not police; the Machine Gun Company of the 45 Regiment, weapon number 71. Later on regiments added additional machine gun companies, and would add the company(kompany) number and it would look something like 45.R. 4.K. xxx. - with xxx for the weapon number using 1 to three digits. Low numbers, unless they are like single digits or some other number a specific person chases afd no more scarce, nor worth more than a high number, like 10,000! Welcome to the board- and there is much more info here- you just have to read! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-21-2019, 02:08 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hello and welcome to the forum. You'll probably find the reference information we've published in our FAQ document useful. Just follow the FAQ link at the top of forum pages. If you can post some properly lit photos with sharp focus on detail and external markings, we can be of more help assisting your evaluation of your Luger. Take photos with a camera that can focus and in shaded natural light instead of using a flash. Usually, low serial numbers don't make much difference in valuation. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-21-2019, 05:12 PM	#9
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	Kurusu, The LP08 was introduced in 1913, nominally at least. Isn’t the cutoff for frames with stock lugs as the standard sometime in that year? This one being such a low serial number in the year is unlikely to have had it though. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

06-20-2019, 08:58 PM	#2
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	Serial numbers run in 10,000 blocks; 1-10,000- then 1-10,000 a, then 1-10,000 b, 1-10,000 c etc. The gripstrap marking is a unit from the first world war, or a police unit marking. Believe me, the guys on this forum will be able to tell you much more..but they will need the pics. Mike

06-21-2019, 11:42 AM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Does it have a stock lug or not?

06-21-2019, 12:46 PM	#6
Katia New User Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Thank you everyone for your reply, there is some very interesting reading here. There is no cursive letter below the s/n. There is no stock lug. Assuming it is just your ordinary 1913 DWM sidearm. Once i clean it up a bit, I will post a few pics. Katia

06-21-2019, 01:03 PM	#7
Katia New User Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	It does have matching wood stock numbers

06-21-2019, 11:43 PM	#12
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Would love to see the photos of the gun and mags

06-22-2019, 10:07 AM	#13
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	I have a 1913 serial number 4012b with a stock lug. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-22-2019, 11:21 AM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Here are three, Early without stock lug, 1913 Erfurt w/o stock lug, 1913 DWM with stock lug, Attached Thumbnails