Purchased 1916 Luger Engraved with Canadian Captain's Name Engraved

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 09:51 AM

Hello to all, have not posted in some time as I have been on a Colt/Smith binge. However, last week I purchased a 1916 DWM with all matching numbers except the mag. Grip strap also has LN stamped on it (I do not know what this indicates). Pistol is in remarkable condition showing only very minor wear. It is the nicest I have personally held. Now the interesting part, the pistol is engraved with a Canadian soldier's name. Engraving reads: A.W. Bowser 25th Canadian Battalion. After googling his name, I was fortunate to find reference to him on the Canadian Archives website that lists soldiers from Canada who were memebers of the Canadian Over-seas Expeditionary Force. The following link goes to info on him: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...f&id_nbr=58055
The records show he was a captain in the 25th which from Nova Scotia and was a Highland Battalion but did not wear kilts except for the pipe band. There is a lot of info on the 25th Battalion. As to the pistol, I believe this provenance proves the legitimacy of the engraving and clearly identifies the soldier to whom it was engraved. The interesting part is how this Canadian soldier obtained this pistol and who engraved it. Would anyone care to chime in? I would appreciate the help. Dan

JTD · 08-13-2012, 10:05 AM

Looks like a nice vet personalized luger to me. See what you can find on this captain, and you might find some clues as to where it may have been captured. John

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 10:11 AM

Is it possible it could have been presented to him already engraved? Does anyone have suggestions on how to precede to find more info on Capt. Bowser?

pitsword · 08-13-2012, 10:13 AM

Great pistol, great piece of history. How about some details on how you found it.

Ron Smith · 08-13-2012, 10:15 AM

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/369/page.pdf

"25th Can. Inf. Bn.
Lt. A. W. Bowser, from 24th Can. Inf.
Bn., to be temp. Et. 20 Nov. 1916."

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2012, 12:06 PM

I would think if it was a presentation piece it would have employed the Military rank of Capt.

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 04:36 PM

Makes sense regarding rank issue. To Ron, I found the same info online. In general, would an engraved name with provenance add or subtract for value of pistol? I am extremely excited about it and feel it adds to the value. What think you?

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2012, 04:43 PM

Dan, That's a tough call..to some yes to some not so much given that the provenance cannot be traced 100% to when where or why?

Some collectors are fascinated by these things and others like to see pistols unmolested by inscriptions or anything else the factory didn't put on a Military pistol.
You like it so it has enhanced value for you..who else matters?

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 04:55 PM

Sorry Pitsword, I run an ad in my local paper as a collector looking to buy military and collectible arms. This gun has been in a gun safe since it's owner died in 1994. He was originally from N.J. but had moved to Virginia. His widow contacted me about some other guns. I have bought quite a few from her, some fantastic guns including older Colts, Smiths and Winchesters. This was to be a keeper for her but concern over a family member's honesty forced her to sell it. She thought I would appreciate and value it. She was correct. I intend to attempt to find out more about the Captain and have contacted the Canadian archives for possible additional info. If any of you can suggest a means to track his military time in Europe, I would appreciate it greatly.

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 04:57 PM

Jerry, I agree. To me a piece of history that is traceable to a Canadian Highlander in WWI is fascinating. To me, the fun of collecting is the research. Thanks for the perspective.

quietman123 · 08-13-2012, 05:15 PM

Regarding the value comment, I am not trying to obtain an accurate value of this gun. I am interested in forum member's opinions as to their opinions on what an engraved name, when traceable, does to the value. To me, this gun somehow ended up in the hands of Captain Bowser from 103 Marchlant St, Halifax, Nova Scotia, who served in with the MacKenzie Highlanders and who in 1916 was a member of the Canadian Over-Seas Expedionary Force. How incredible that a fellow in Virginia ends up with it 96 years later. The guns a keeper!

padredan · 08-13-2012, 05:41 PM

outstanding, I agree very nice, congrats

CAP Black · 08-13-2012, 09:48 PM

My guess is that Bowser had the engraving added commercially just to mark his name on it for posterity. Also, I would think that if he served in WW I that he obtained it like all the other soldiers did.

Blastattack · 08-13-2012, 09:58 PM

Very nice pistol. Much, much more tasteful than some idiot using a scribe to gouge his SSN into the finish.

Ron Smith · 08-14-2012, 10:01 AM

My thought is that Capt. Bowser most likely had it engraved. Lugers were highly prized even then.

And as all of us who have served in the military know. Theft of personal property has always been an issue. Soldiers don't get paid much, and even an otherwise honest Trooper, could be tempted by such a prize to raise some beer money.

As far as effecting the value, it could go either way. Those who value provenance and the traceable history would most likely be willing to pay a much higher price. While others, would consider it a devaluation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Ron

quietman123 · 08-14-2012, 02:10 PM

Thanks Ron, you have good perspective. I have always understood the desire to have collectible guns in original condition. I feel the same way. This gun is in such amazing condition that I had to have it. I told the seller I would pay her $1000 for it and that the name could raise or lower the value. She accepted. After finding information on Capt. Bowser and reading a good article on the Canadian 25th, I feel the gun is worth more because I love the story. I am hoping to find more about the Captain.
Thanks...

Nomadr · 08-14-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blastattack

Very nice pistol. Much, much more tasteful than some idiot using a scribe to gouge his SSN into the finish.

In all due respect... They were not idiots! They were Soldiers. And they earned what they brought back, with what ever way they chose to personalize them as theirs. I value all of them as a collector.

Bob

MikeP · 08-15-2012, 02:51 PM

+1

wlyon · 08-15-2012, 03:57 PM

Plus 2 !!!!! Bill

08-13-2012, 09:51 AM	#1
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Purchased 1916 Luger Engraved with Canadian Captain's Name Engraved Hello to all, have not posted in some time as I have been on a Colt/Smith binge. However, last week I purchased a 1916 DWM with all matching numbers except the mag. Grip strap also has LN stamped on it (I do not know what this indicates). Pistol is in remarkable condition showing only very minor wear. It is the nicest I have personally held. Now the interesting part, the pistol is engraved with a Canadian soldier's name. Engraving reads: A.W. Bowser 25th Canadian Battalion. After googling his name, I was fortunate to find reference to him on the Canadian Archives website that lists soldiers from Canada who were memebers of the Canadian Over-seas Expeditionary Force. The following link goes to info on him: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...f&id_nbr=58055 The records show he was a captain in the 25th which from Nova Scotia and was a Highland Battalion but did not wear kilts except for the pipe band. There is a lot of info on the 25th Battalion. As to the pistol, I believe this provenance proves the legitimacy of the engraving and clearly identifies the soldier to whom it was engraved. The interesting part is how this Canadian soldier obtained this pistol and who engraved it. Would anyone care to chime in? I would appreciate the help. Dan Attached Thumbnails

08-13-2012, 10:15 AM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/369/page.pdf "25th Can. Inf. Bn. Lt. A. W. Bowser, from 24th Can. Inf. Bn., to be temp. Et. 20 Nov. 1916." __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-13-2012, 12:06 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	I would think if it was a presentation piece it would have employed the Military rank of Capt. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2012, 04:43 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	Dan, That's a tough call..to some yes to some not so much given that the provenance cannot be traced 100% to when where or why? Some collectors are fascinated by these things and others like to see pistols unmolested by inscriptions or anything else the factory didn't put on a Military pistol. You like it so it has enhanced value for you..who else matters? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2012, 05:41 PM	#12
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	outstanding, I agree very nice, congrats __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

08-13-2012, 10:05 AM	#2
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Looks like a nice vet personalized luger to me. See what you can find on this captain, and you might find some clues as to where it may have been captured. John

08-13-2012, 10:11 AM	#3
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Is it possible it could have been presented to him already engraved? Does anyone have suggestions on how to precede to find more info on Capt. Bowser?

08-13-2012, 10:13 AM	#4
pitsword User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 459 Thanks: 3,964 Thanked 103 Times in 83 Posts	Great pistol, great piece of history. How about some details on how you found it.

08-13-2012, 04:36 PM	#7
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Makes sense regarding rank issue. To Ron, I found the same info online. In general, would an engraved name with provenance add or subtract for value of pistol? I am extremely excited about it and feel it adds to the value. What think you?

08-13-2012, 04:55 PM	#9
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Sorry Pitsword, I run an ad in my local paper as a collector looking to buy military and collectible arms. This gun has been in a gun safe since it's owner died in 1994. He was originally from N.J. but had moved to Virginia. His widow contacted me about some other guns. I have bought quite a few from her, some fantastic guns including older Colts, Smiths and Winchesters. This was to be a keeper for her but concern over a family member's honesty forced her to sell it. She thought I would appreciate and value it. She was correct. I intend to attempt to find out more about the Captain and have contacted the Canadian archives for possible additional info. If any of you can suggest a means to track his military time in Europe, I would appreciate it greatly.

08-13-2012, 04:57 PM	#10
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Jerry, I agree. To me a piece of history that is traceable to a Canadian Highlander in WWI is fascinating. To me, the fun of collecting is the research. Thanks for the perspective.

08-13-2012, 05:15 PM	#11
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Regarding the value comment, I am not trying to obtain an accurate value of this gun. I am interested in forum member's opinions as to their opinions on what an engraved name, when traceable, does to the value. To me, this gun somehow ended up in the hands of Captain Bowser from 103 Marchlant St, Halifax, Nova Scotia, who served in with the MacKenzie Highlanders and who in 1916 was a member of the Canadian Over-Seas Expedionary Force. How incredible that a fellow in Virginia ends up with it 96 years later. The guns a keeper!

08-13-2012, 09:48 PM	#13
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	My guess is that Bowser had the engraving added commercially just to mark his name on it for posterity. Also, I would think that if he served in WW I that he obtained it like all the other soldiers did.

08-13-2012, 09:58 PM	#14
Blastattack User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Calgary AB Posts: 44 Thanks: 8 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Very nice pistol. Much, much more tasteful than some idiot using a scribe to gouge his SSN into the finish.

08-14-2012, 10:01 AM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	My thought is that Capt. Bowser most likely had it engraved. Lugers were highly prized even then. And as all of us who have served in the military know. Theft of personal property has always been an issue. Soldiers don't get paid much, and even an otherwise honest Trooper, could be tempted by such a prize to raise some beer money. As far as effecting the value, it could go either way. Those who value provenance and the traceable history would most likely be willing to pay a much higher price. While others, would consider it a devaluation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-14-2012, 02:10 PM	#16
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks Ron, you have good perspective. I have always understood the desire to have collectible guns in original condition. I feel the same way. This gun is in such amazing condition that I had to have it. I told the seller I would pay her $1000 for it and that the name could raise or lower the value. She accepted. After finding information on Capt. Bowser and reading a good article on the Canadian 25th, I feel the gun is worth more because I love the story. I am hoping to find more about the Captain. Thanks...

08-15-2012, 02:51 PM	#18
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	+1

08-15-2012, 03:57 PM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,631 Thanks: 3,170 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	Plus 2 !!!!! Bill __________________ Bill Lyon