DAGGER OPINION PLEASE

Yank · 01-28-2004, 07:34 PM

I don't know if this is the right section for this, but here goes... Well, it seems as though I might have found something else to collect now... A gentleman sent me the following email:

***********************************
I have a German WWII Luftwaffe Dress Dagger I am willing to sell. I have attached a pic. It has TIGER and Solingen on the blade. It has an emblem of a Tiger beside the printing. The only real blemish is the tear on the scaboard. It is visible in the pic I sent.

I checked the value several years ago on a German memorabilia website. It was listed then at over $250. A couple of weeks ago, I asked a collector it's value. Without looking at the dagger, he looked it up in some book. Showed me to verify it was correct and told me it was worth between $300 and $500 depending on condition.

You now know everything I know. I am no expert on this stuff. I am not a collector. The dagger was a gift from my father. If you are a collector, I am sure you know much better than me. I am willing to sell it for $400 (midpoint of what I was previously told). If you can convince me that it is worth less, I will consider selling it to you for less. I am not trying to get to anyone, I just want a fair price.
**********************************

Should I go for it or run in the other direction? He sent a pic along with his email, and it looks nice (to my untrained eye). I did a little net research and it appears to be an early pattern ('38?) with the black handle. I have ZERO experience with this stuff and I am afraid of fakes. Would anyone like to comment on this? Any good collector site recommendations would also be appreciated. Thanks!

Roadkill · 01-28-2004, 07:53 PM

Yank, I've got a buddy named Ken. We were in the backwaters last December and saw a 4-5' gator sleeping on the bank. Ken said he was going to catch it cause it was in a "state of semi hibernation". He must of been watching the discovery channel or something. Anyway, I said Ken, you best be leaving that thing alone. He thought a second or two, then paddled right up to the bank, got out, poked it with his paddle, then looked at me and grinned. Well it awoke. Nearly got his A** and chased him up a tree. Ken and I have treed a lot of coons but this was a first seeing him up a tree. It took an hour or so for me and my ugly dog Buster (RIP) to run the thing off. You asking the question about the dagger is exactly like Ken thinking about what he was going to do before he went on did it anyway. He knew enough about gators to leave them alone, but just had to try it.

rk

Yank · 01-28-2004, 08:27 PM

Roadkill-
I guess I kinda feel like that lion that appeared with Bugs Bunny in an old Looney Tune. You know the one, who Bugs asked how many "lumps" he wanted with his coffee, and then gets lumped on the head by Bugs with a big mallet? I guess the next parallel would be for me to blindly make a purchase... This relates to our lion friend in that later in the cartoon, Bugs AGAIN asks him how many lumps he would like, and then the lion quickly grabs the mallet from Bugs, announcing, "Oh, I'll just help myself." He forethwith clobbers his OWN noggin with said mallet. Classic!

Navy · 01-28-2004, 08:44 PM

Yank,

Third Reich daggers are a field of collecting that have far, far more (and more exact) fakery than Lugers. Some of the same manufacturers who made them pre-1945 are making them today and using the same machines and dies. Unless you have a great deal of faith, extensive knowledge (perhaps that should be encyclopedic knowledge) or an extremely big checkbook, you would be well served by being very, very careful. My experience in the 1960s was that the fakes were *exceptionally good*; they have gotten much better in the intervening years.

Having said all that, should you wish to jump in this swamp, there are some extremely reputable collectors and dealers. You should be advised that the original, unmessed with stuff is far from inexpensive..I typically pay around $2000-2500 for a provenanced Imperial Navy dagger and between $700-2000 for Weimar/III Reich Daggers, depending on condition, provenance and other factors.

Pls contact me off forum and I will share some sources names.

Tom A.

Herb · 01-28-2004, 09:35 PM

Yank, I would be very cafeful about this one. The Luftwaffe dress dagger should have a dark BLUE grip, not a black one. The Tiger stamping is that of Lauterjung & Co. Tiger-Stahlwaren u. Waffenfabrik. Soligen. If you decide to get into collecting these very beautiful items be prepared to pay prices comparable to that of a good Luger of various types, into the thousands even. A good book to get first is 'Reproduction Recognition' I don't recall the author as I sold it when I sold my collection. Tom is very correct, there are more fakes and reproductions than real ones out there now but if you know your stuff you can usually spot them. The ones that Tom mentions about being made on the original machinery, in my experience, will have a very small difference, I feel to let the experienced collectory know that it is a reproduction. A good source that guarentees their authenticity is an auction house called Manion's, you can find them on the internet, they deal in all types of militaria and have a pricey catalog but they stand by what they sell.

01-28-2004, 07:34 PM	#1
Yank User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DAGGER OPINION PLEASE I don't know if this is the right section for this, but here goes... Well, it seems as though I might have found something else to collect now... A gentleman sent me the following email: ********************************* I have a German WWII Luftwaffe Dress Dagger I am willing to sell. I have attached a pic. It has TIGER and Solingen on the blade. It has an emblem of a Tiger beside the printing. The only real blemish is the tear on the scaboard. It is visible in the pic I sent. I checked the value several years ago on a German memorabilia website. It was listed then at over $250. A couple of weeks ago, I asked a collector it's value. Without looking at the dagger, he looked it up in some book. Showed me to verify it was correct and told me it was worth between $300 and $500 depending on condition. You now know everything I know. I am no expert on this stuff. I am not a collector. The dagger was a gift from my father. If you are a collector, I am sure you know much better than me. I am willing to sell it for $400 (midpoint of what I was previously told). If you can convince me that it is worth less, I will consider selling it to you for less. I am not trying to get to anyone, I just want a fair price. ******************************** Should I go for it or run in the other direction? He sent a pic along with his email, and it looks nice (to my untrained eye). I did a little net research and it appears to be an early pattern ('38?) with the black handle. I have ZERO experience with this stuff and I am afraid of fakes. Would anyone like to comment on this? Any good collector site recommendations would also be appreciated. Thanks!

01-28-2004, 09:35 PM	#5
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yank, I would be very cafeful about this one. The Luftwaffe dress dagger should have a dark BLUE grip, not a black one. The Tiger stamping is that of Lauterjung & Co. Tiger-Stahlwaren u. Waffenfabrik. Soligen. If you decide to get into collecting these very beautiful items be prepared to pay prices comparable to that of a good Luger of various types, into the thousands even. A good book to get first is 'Reproduction Recognition' I don't recall the author as I sold it when I sold my collection. Tom is very correct, there are more fakes and reproductions than real ones out there now but if you know your stuff you can usually spot them. The ones that Tom mentions about being made on the original machinery, in my experience, will have a very small difference, I feel to let the experienced collectory know that it is a reproduction. A good source that guarentees their authenticity is an auction house called Manion's, you can find them on the internet, they deal in all types of militaria and have a pricey catalog but they stand by what they sell. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-28-2004, 07:53 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Yank, I've got a buddy named Ken. We were in the backwaters last December and saw a 4-5' gator sleeping on the bank. Ken said he was going to catch it cause it was in a "state of semi hibernation". He must of been watching the discovery channel or something. Anyway, I said Ken, you best be leaving that thing alone. He thought a second or two, then paddled right up to the bank, got out, poked it with his paddle, then looked at me and grinned. Well it awoke. Nearly got his A** and chased him up a tree. Ken and I have treed a lot of coons but this was a first seeing him up a tree. It took an hour or so for me and my ugly dog Buster (RIP) to run the thing off. You asking the question about the dagger is exactly like Ken thinking about what he was going to do before he went on did it anyway. He knew enough about gators to leave them alone, but just had to try it. rk

01-28-2004, 08:27 PM	#3
Yank User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Roadkill- I guess I kinda feel like that lion that appeared with Bugs Bunny in an old Looney Tune. You know the one, who Bugs asked how many "lumps" he wanted with his coffee, and then gets lumped on the head by Bugs with a big mallet? I guess the next parallel would be for me to blindly make a purchase... This relates to our lion friend in that later in the cartoon, Bugs AGAIN asks him how many lumps he would like, and then the lion quickly grabs the mallet from Bugs, announcing, "Oh, I'll just help myself." He forethwith clobbers his OWN noggin with said mallet. Classic!

01-28-2004, 08:44 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Yank, Third Reich daggers are a field of collecting that have far, far more (and more exact) fakery than Lugers. Some of the same manufacturers who made them pre-1945 are making them today and using the same machines and dies. Unless you have a great deal of faith, extensive knowledge (perhaps that should be encyclopedic knowledge) or an extremely big checkbook, you would be well served by being very, very careful. My experience in the 1960s was that the fakes were exceptionally good; they have gotten much better in the intervening years. Having said all that, should you wish to jump in this swamp, there are some extremely reputable collectors and dealers. You should be advised that the original, unmessed with stuff is far from inexpensive..I typically pay around $2000-2500 for a provenanced Imperial Navy dagger and between $700-2000 for Weimar/III Reich Daggers, depending on condition, provenance and other factors. Pls contact me off forum and I will share some sources names. Tom A.