WTK: byf 42 Luger value (Pics)

[Cincylance]

I'm looking to buy this Luger. I own a Luger now, but it is definitely not this nice. The seller says it is matching and original except for the mag which does not have a serial number on it, just a mfg. code. He says the gun is a bring-back. It also comes with a soft shell holster which, I am told, is unmarked/dated. Could the "rig" be a wartime original? He says the pistol retains about 85% of the original finish. How much is too much for a "keeper" purchase? $600? $700, $800, $1000?

Thanks!
Cincylance

[John Sabato]

IF this gun has not been refinished (and it does not appear that it has been) and is truely all matching except the magazine, it certainly looks like you wouldn't be taken if you paid $1000 for it. It appears in real nice shape. If you can get it for less GO FOR IT.

The soft-shell holster was probably intended for a P38, and it should be so marked on the back, but that doesn't mean that this Luger wasn't carried in it during the war. Does the holster have a magazine pocket attached? IF so, does the pocket have two little half moons cut to accomodate the knobs of the magazine? If it doesn't, then it IS a P38 holster.

Be cautious of touch up blueing though... There isn't much blue wear showing on the sides of the muzzle and the high point of the sideplate... typical high wear points from riding in a holster.

You can tell if it has been touched up with cold blue because it will have a distictive odor if you rub suspected touched up areas... If you want to know what the odor smells like, buy a bottle of cold blue (inexpensive and good for touching up non-collector firearms) and use it on some scrap steel. The copper sulphate odor is unmistakeable...

[Cincylance]

John,

Thanks for the reply. The seller is asking $850. I'll tell him I want it with a 3-day inspection period. The holster sounds like a p38 holster. The holster has a square bottom at the barrels end and the top of the mag slot has been cut down about 3/4" or so--no doubt to accomodate the Luger mag. The cut area looks like it was done a long time ago. Maybe an earlier owner (the GI who picked it up?) came across this holster and cut it to work with the Luger mag.

Thanks again!
Cincylance

[Cincylance]

Well, I bought it. Looking at it in the sunlight, I can see that it is indeed the original finish. I think his 85% finish rating was being conservative. This Luger looks like it has only holster wear. The mag fits/extracts so well that I'm wondering if it could be the original mag issued with the gun. It is an FXO and is not numbered. The grips are not numbered, but show signs of having been with this gun for a long time. Did the Germans relax on their serial numbering of these parts towards the end of the Lugers production?

The holster is indeed a P38 holster and shows wear marks of having holstered a P38. It was no doubt added with this pistol not long ago. I'll use it for my P38 shooter.

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Cincylane; look real hard at the inside of your grips. There should be e/655 or e/135 marks somewhere.
Lonnie

[Frank]

Cincylance, the byf 42 was most likely shipped with magazines that were blank aluminum or black plastic bottoms. Sounds like you made a good deal. If the last two digits of the serial number are not on the inside of the grips, look for a small E/135 marking.

[kidvett]

Cincylance,

Nice! Great buy!

Which color is the ejector? Plum or black?? Late production Mausers have a tendency to display plum ejectors...just wondering out of curiosity...

kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Cincylance]

I'll have to check for the ejector color and the grip marks. I'll be sure to reply soon.

Cincylance

[Cincylance]

Well, I checked the grips and I cannot find any proof marks, however I am still convinced they've been with this pistol for a long time. There are "aged" spots on the grip panel metal that are mirrored in the wood. By aged, I mean there are a few rust spots along the grip panel edge under the grips. Any thoughts?

As for the ejector, is that the long narrow part you can see on the exterior of the pistol on the right side? That part has a nice brown-patina as can be seen in the pics posted above. Is that the ejector? Please clarify if not.

Cincylance

[kidvett]

hello Cincylance,

Yes that long narrow thing on the right side of the receiver is the EJECTOR....Look closely at the patina color and it should look like a Plum color....

Keep us posted on your discoveries...

kidvett

[Cincylance]

kidvett,

Yes, it does have a plum-colored ejector. What holster would be correct for this pistol?

Thanks,
Cincylance

[Cincylance]

Hello,

Well, I bought a holster for her. It's a smooth black holster marked DLD 42. The condition is very, very nice and matches that of the pistol. Now the big question--is this a correct holster for my luger pictured above?

Cincylance

[RockinWR]

Cincylance,
* Nice looking P.08. Congradulations.
* The holster's "42" certainly plays to your byf 42; but, is certainly no guarantee of authenticity.
* I can not find a reference for a holster maker with the code "dld". Does a Waffen acceptance mark appear on the holster? What is the WaA # ?? I suspect a different code maker and the WaA# might confirm my thinking.
* Lots of smooth black PT.08's around. Some are 1942 vintage. Some are 2002 vintage. Have any pictures?? Have you tried the "smell" test yet?? If the inside smells like musty old cow leather, you're on the right track. If it smells like an India Buffalo hide or new tanning solution....oh, well!!
* Does the back of the holster show a "P.08" marking? Where is its location if it appears?
* BTW...what is the S/N and letter block of your byf 42?? Most were shipped with a fxo (Haenel)maker's marked mag with two sE/37 waffen acceptances...all located on the side of the mag body. Many byf 42's had a black plastic base plug with a P.08 stamped on the mag body adjacent to the base plug. The mag pictured above appears to be either a "122" code or a "fxo" code marked example. Maybe...just maybe...a real early byf 42 would have an unnumbered, extruded, center pinned, aluminum based fxo mag.
* If the mag is P.08 marked, does the straight leg of the letter "P" point to the edge of the mag or toward the base plug or mag long axis centerline??
Thanks,
Bob

[Cincylance]

Bob,

Thanks. I'll check the maker code again. I was going from memory. It is waffenamped and marked P08. I'll try to get some pics taken and posted.

It smells right compared to my other WW2 german leather items and the buckle on the front looks right to me. I've seen the fake holsters out there that were made in India and this definitely isn't one of those.

More to come...
Cincylance

[Cincylance]

OK, I didn't get pics yet, but here are some answers to your questions...

______* I can not find a reference for a holster maker with the code "dld". Does a Waffen acceptance mark appear on the holster? What is the WaA # ??

__It is marked WaA195 to the right of "dld" (?) over "42"

______* Have you tried the "smell" test yet?? If the inside smells like musty old cow leather, you're on the right track. If it smells like an India Buffalo hide or new tanning solution....oh, well!!

__It smells correct to me, but it's not a strong odor.

______* Does the back of the holster show a "P.08" marking? Where is its location if it appears?

__Yes. It's located in the upper right corner of the back of the holster.

______* BTW...what is the S/N and letter block of your byf 42?? Most were shipped with a fxo (Haenel)maker's marked mag with two sE/37 waffen acceptances...all located on the side of the mag body. The mag pictured above appears to be either a "122" code or a "fxo" code marked example. Maybe...just maybe...a real early byf 42 would have an unnumbered, extruded, center pinned, aluminum based fxo mag.

__Luger's serial number is 6814g. Mag is marked only on one side with "fxo" and two 37 acceptance stamps. Also marked "P08" (read below.) The mag is unnumbered.

______* If the mag is P.08 marked, does the straight leg of the letter "P" point to the edge of the mag or toward the base plug or mag long axis centerline?

__The "P08" mark runs vertically along the length of the mag with the leg of the "P" pointing to the edge.

______If the holster is fake, it's the absolute best WW2 german faked item I've ever seen. I hope this helps. Maybe I can get some pics still.

__Thanks!
Cincylance

[RockinWR]

Cincylance,
* Thank you for a quality reply.
* WaA195: Per J. Still, TRL, Pg.112; J. Walter, TLB, Pg.284; & E. Bender, LH & A, Pg. 213 this Waffen Inspector accepted PT.08's from "dkk"-F.Offermann, "dla"-K.Barth, "dta"-G.Waldhausen, "dtu"-G.Ensink, & a number of other leather makers in the WWII period. Closest match to your reported "dld" is "dla"-Karl Barth Militareffekien-Fabrik of Waldbrohl/Rheinland. Suggest you re-check your PT & confirm.
* The unnumbered fxo mag would not be incorrect for your "g" suffix byf 42. The "right side up P.08" on this mag makes it a Type V, Mauser Military Style Mag per Don Hallock's categorization scheme. Many mags, this late in 42, were shipped with Type VI, black plastic based fxo's; but both are seen. I suspect Mauser was using up available mags in anticipation of their conversion to P.38 production later in '42.
* J. Still, TRL, Pg.66 states 113k produced in 1942 to about Nov. when the first P.38's were accepted. Puts your "g" block at about July-August assembly given a linear 10k/mo.
* All else appears to be correct too IMO. A wonderful addition. Another fxo mag & an e/135 tool and you'll have a complete keeper rig.
* BTW, most accept Mauser ceasing numbered mags about the 'u" block of the byf '41 production.
Bob

[Cincylance]

Bob,

Wow, great reply and good news to hear. I almost stated in the previous post that it could be an "dla" and not dld" as the letters are in a lower case serif font and very close to the top near the stitching which made the last digit appear as possibly a "d" or and "a."

As for the mag, also good news although I never suspected it to be anything but the original based on the match in condition to the pistol itself. I've seen a few fxo mags like this one on Ebay, but they seem to bring a premium when in the condition I need.

In your opinion, what would you estimate the $ range to be if I complete the rig? So far I have $1k invested and I don't want to go overboard adding the needed additional items.

Thanks,
Cincylance

[Cincylance]

Um, is it taboo to ask for a value here (where everyone else can see what you've posted?)

Let me rephrase my question...

If I have $1200 invested in this complete rig, by the time I get all of the pieces, will I be doing OK? Here are the specs on the "to come" rig:

byf 42 Luger, #6814g (pics above)
2 - unnumbered FXO, 37 alum bottom mags
dla 42 "minty" holster
Tool marked e/135

Obviously, I don't have the second mag yet or the loading tool. I'm wondering if I should invest in them or would I be putting more money into this than I could get back out of it?

Thanks,
Cincylance

[Frank]

Hey Cincy Kid, let me answer your question like this. Your pistol is worth at least $800 to $1000, with the blank magazine. The holster, in mint condition is probably worth at least $250. The spare blank aluminum bottom magazine sells for $100 to $150. The E/135 tool usually sells for about $100 to $125.

If you low ball all the items, your rig will be worth $1250!!! Sounds like a pretty good deal to me!! BTW, nice catch!!

[Cincylance]

Excellent news, Frankie!

Thanks,
Cincylance