Is this common?

[Mike B]

Greetings,
I have not had the good fortune to handle very many artillery holsters, so I don't know what markings are proper or improper. I purchased this one a few days back on a small online auction. I was a bit surprised to see what appears to be the serial number of the Luger that was issed with this holster. Then again it may be some other number. Hopefully someone (Jerry?) can shed some light on the signifance or this number.

Mike

[George Anderson]

Mike, am I correct in thinking that this is a cut-down LP08 holster? The stamping is Weimar era.

[Ron Smith]

Mike,

It's a Police marking with rack number.

Ron

[Mike B]

George,
No, it is not cut down. Full size; missing pull up strap and looks like it was polished with shoe polish, but a legit 1917 artillery holster.

Thanks for the reply,

Ron,
Thanks to you as well.

Mike

[Don M]

Mike, what I see is 4./S.D.II.1106. This seems to be a combination of a Reichswehr marking (4./.....) overstamped with a marking of the Schutzpolizei of Elberfeld-Barmen (S.D.II.1106.). Does close examination show an earlier marking under the police one?

[Mike B]

Don,
Thanks for the reply. No overstamp that I can see. However I thought the II was an "N" but you are probably correct about it being II.

Mike

[George Anderson]

Sure looks like an "N" to me.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Sure looks like an "N" to me.

+ 1

[Mike B]

OK, whether it is a "N", a "II" or whatever, the consensus is it is a police mark. I, personally have never heard of a police artillery. Has anyone seen or heard of a police artillery holster?

Mike

[George Anderson]

Mike, I don't know about consensus on that. The location of the marking and the use of the forward slash(/) lead me to believe it might well be Reichswehr.

[Don M]

There are several reasons I believe it probably is a II and not N:
1. The diagonal line extends beyond the left leg and onto the welt.
2. The two legs are not stamped on the same line. They would be if it were from a single N die but not necessarily so if it were stamped twice with an I die.
3. I know of no German police marking S.D.N.

As for the location, it corresponds with that specified for Reichswehr holsters which is consistent with an original Reichswehr marking. In the early 1920s, there were no instructions for marking police holsters and markings from this time period are found in various locations. If the police marking was intended to replace the Reichswehr marking, there was nothing to prohibit overstamping.

While police LP08s and holsters are quite rare now, they did exist in the early 1920s. While the evidence is sparse, I believe some LP08s were issued to police shortly after WWI. Their length proved unsuitable for police work so soon almost all were either reworked into P08s or replaced by P08s. One notable exception is the Prussian Landjägerei which continued to use LP08s until they were replaced by P08s in 1929.

Here is an example of a police LP08/P08 rework: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...d=1#post196859.

[Ron Smith]

Don,

I recall a post quite a while ago about Police issued LP.08s. And I think there was a photo of a Police Officer with an LP.08.

Now that I look closer, it does have an earlier Reichswehr Unit mark under the Police marking. I've never seen a Reichswehr marked LP.08 holster. I wonder if the leather was moistened before it was over stamped. If so it would result in the near obliteration of the previous mark.

Ron

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Now that I look closer, it does have an earlier Reichswehr Unit mark under the Police marking. I've never seen a Reichswehr marked LP.08 holster. I wonder if the leather was moistened before it was over stamped. If so it would result in the near obliteration of the previous mark.

Ron, you're much more knowledgeable than I about the Reichswehr but I think they were forbidden by the IMKK to have LP08s sometime in the early 1920s. There was no such prohibition for the police. This may explain why this holster was transferred.

Wetting of the leather may also explain the depth of the police stamping.

[Ron Smith]

Don,

One of our most knowleable members (I won't use any names) has stated on several occasions that he has never found anything from the Allied Commission or in the Treaty of Versailles restricting pistol barrel length.

I'm not saying for certain one way or the other, because I don't know. I'm going by what he and I have discussed.

I have seen 2 or 3 LP.08s with early Provisional Reichswehr Unit marks. At some point they had them in inventory, at least prior to reorganiztion and downsizing circa 1923. And I have seen photos of Freikorps units with LP.08s. I've never seen an intact Reichswehr marked LP.08 holster.

When leather is tooled, as in a fancy tooled holster. The leather is moistened with a sponge soaked in warm water and rubbing alcohol so that the leather will take a well defined sharp impression. The mark appears as if it was done in this manner.

Ron

[Don M]

Ron, I was going on what I found in the second paragraph on p. 12 of Jan Still's Weimar Lugers. The lack of observed LP08s with full Reichswehr unit markings certainly lends credence to that paragraph. I think many collectors have interpreted that as a prohibition on LP08s for both the Army and the police but it is specific only to the Army and there is convincing evidence that the police had LP08s. However, I have not personally seen the documentation cited by Still and am also basing my opinion on the reputation of others.

[Don M]

Mike, it looks like you have acquired an extremely rare, perhaps one-of-a-kind, specimen. Congratulations. I'm very jealous!

To answer your initial question: Absolutely not!!!

[Mike B]

Please see, "Luger forum classified" and look for this holster in the "Want to sell" section.