Death's head P08 with verrry interesting provenance

Dwight Gruber · 10-14-2021, 05:08 AM

https://centurionauctions.hibid.com/...pistol?q=luger

--Dwight

gunbugs · 10-15-2021, 12:42 AM

That gun has certainly "been around".

Doubs · 10-15-2021, 02:10 AM

What happened to the other replies that were here earlier?

Sieger · 10-15-2021, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

What happened to the other replies that were here earlier?

Doubs,

Yes, there have been quite long threads on the "Death Head Luger" topic.

The majority of the real experts here have agreed that most, if not all of them, are post war fakes!!

Respectfully,

Sieger

DonVoigt · 10-15-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Doubs,

Yes, there have been quite long threads on the "Death Head Luger" topic.

The majority of the real experts here have agreed that most, if not all of them, are post war fakes!!

Respectfully,

Sieger

Both statements are true; however, I don't know who would qualify as a "real expert".

I don't recall ever seeing an RC or EG rebuild with a DH though.
This "may" be an example of a genuine DH marked luger;
I'd like to hear Dwight's opinion on it.
It is indeed " verry interesting".

Doesn't answer the question of "where" did other responses go!

I've added pictures, as the auction link will go dead eventually.

Doubs · 10-15-2021, 12:20 PM

After posting my comment, I realized that there is an identical post on the other Luger forum and that's the one that has many comments. Sometimes I get the two forums confused.

spangy · 10-15-2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I don't recall ever seeing an RC or EG rebuild with a DH though.
This "may" be an example of a genuine DH marked luger

I've added pictures, as the auction link will go dead eventually.

Thanks Don ... that is a head's up move Re: images

And an astute observation Re: DH validity.

I found this gun very interesting as well and alerted the membership on Oct. 6th ... 6 days before the auction end ... one of us could have owned this gun ... I dropped out of the bidding around $1000 but I would have loved to be able to afford it.
With USD to CAD + shipping the gun would set me back about $1600 - $1650.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showpost...43&postcount=5

Original thread
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=41395

Dwight Gruber · 10-15-2021, 03:38 PM

There are Luger variations which are so uncommon, and so difficult to authenticate, that I won't consider owning them--GL Lugers, Russian crossed rifles, etc.--because I simply don't have the background or experience to evaluate. The Death's Head pistols are in that category. However...

This pistol began life as an LP08. After the war it was reworked into a standard P08 at some facility in or near Suhl: the commercial profs are those of he Suhl proof house. In 1953 the pistol was again reworked, this time by the East German Deutsche Volkspolizei (VoPo), as witnessed by the new barrel and barrel number and the DVP armorer's mark on the receiver.

Thus, the removal of the chamber date and the addition of the Death Head stamp would of necessity have occurred at some point during the Weimar era. Its appearance after the initial rework and before the DVP rework is historical evidence that the Death Head organization was definitely of the Weimar period. Its appearance on an East German pistol reworked from storage is convincing evidence of its period application.

I am sufficiently convinced of its authenticity that I considered buying it. At three days before the auction its online bid surpassed my maximum, so I reluctantly passed.

--Dwight

Vlim · 10-15-2021, 09:44 PM

Keep things civil, please.

Sieger · 10-16-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Some of the real experts here are blowhards who are so in love with themselves that they ignore anyone else's opinions.

Sheepherder,

Agreed, but we need not mention any specific names, though, most of us know who they are.

Respectfully,

Sieger

MikeP · 10-18-2021, 11:38 AM

Always wondered about the actual definition of "expert" and how one actually achieves that status.
I have seen some who have assumed it, but the question of actual legitimacy remains.
Civility rules, though.

DonVoigt · 10-18-2021, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeP

Always wondered about the actual definition of "expert" and how one actually achieves that status.
I have seen some who have assumed it, but the question of actual legitimacy remains.
Civility rules, though.

I've heard that an "expert" is anyone who claims to be such that is more than 100 miles away from their residence.

Vlim · 10-18-2021, 03:06 PM

Can we drop the 'expert' remarks and go back on topic?
(And stay on topic). Thanks.

Pistol · 10-18-2021, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spangy

Thanks Don ... that is a head's up move Re: images

And an astute observation Re: DH validity.

I found this gun very interesting as well and alerted the membership on Oct. 6th ... 6 days before the auction end ... one of us could have owned this gun ... I dropped out of the bidding around $1000 but I would have loved to be able to afford it.
With USD to CAD + shipping the gun would set me back about $1600 - $1650.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showpost...43&postcount=5

Original thread
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=41395

The VOPO in your second link called "Original Thread" is a different luger.

spangy · 10-18-2021, 10:08 PM

Pistol here is my original post 2nding Vlim's previous statement Re: VOPO's in your post "Rare" Luger - LOL

Originally Posted by Vlim View Post
I am pleased that people start to see these for what they are, a collectable variation and not a 'shooter grade parts gun'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spangy

I 2nd that Vlim.

Now here is a gun only your mother should love ... but I love it lots.

Complete with the lazy death's head on the chamber ... a true Heinz 57 ya ???

https://centurionauctions.hibid.com/...ref=watch-list

Later Dwight made a post referring to the same gun I had pointed out in your post regarding a VOPO on Gunbroker ... WE KNOW IT'S NOT THE GUN IN YOUR POST... DUH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

https://centurionauctions.hibid.com/...pistol?q=luger

--Dwight

The gun I referred to in your post has nothing to do with the gun you posted about and had nothing to do with you either ... the gun I posted was for Vlim's benifit as we both like VOPO's. Later on dwight made a post about the gun I had pointed out to Vlim in your thread.

2 things ... I can't believe your bent out of shape about this and
2 I can't believe I have to explain this to you !!!

Maybe read the post more carefully before sounding off ya ??

Pistol · 10-18-2021, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spangy

Pistol here is my original post 2nding Vlim's previous statement Re: VOPO's in your post "Rare" Luger - LOL

Later Dwight made a post referring to the gun I had pointed out in your post regarding a VOPO on Gunbroker ... WE KNOW IT'S NOT THE SAME GUN ... DUH

The gun I referred to in your post has nothing to do with the gun you posted about and had nothing to do with you either ... the gun I posted was for Vlim's benifit as we both like VOPO's. Later on dwight made a post about the gun I pointed out to Vlim in your post.

2 things ... I can't believe your bent out of shape about this and
2 I can't believe I have to explain this to you !!!

Maybe read the post more carefully before sounding off ya ??

Calm down, I see now. LOL, seems you are the one "bent out shape". Canadians, eh? Just pointing out where you have the links back to back for different guns. ....it could be confusing. That is why mods always say don't mix listings. It confuses dumb hillbilles such as myself.

spangy · 10-18-2021, 10:35 PM

Yup ... I am annoyed for sure ... I have better things to do than justify my posts to those incapable of following them.

And yes I am Canadian and very proud of it.
I also love America and Americans as I don't believe in racism.

wlyon · 10-18-2021, 10:53 PM

Hey Guy's Isn't there enough hate and discontent in this new world without having any of it in our forums ? Lets just enjoy our hobby and each other peacefully. Please Bill

gunbugs · 10-18-2021, 11:59 PM

I would propose that if you have more than say, 3 Lugers, then it has gone beyond "hobby". More of an addiction. But what do I know? I probably shouldn't throw stones in my glass house.

spangy · 10-19-2021, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbugs

I would propose that if you have more than say, 3 Lugers, then it has gone beyond "hobby". More of an addiction. But what do I know? I probably shouldn't throw stones in my glass house.

I gatta agree with that gunbugs. I am definitely beyond the "hobby"stage and now in full blown addiction.

10-14-2021, 05:08 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Death's head P08 with verrry interesting provenance https://centurionauctions.hibid.com/...pistol?q=luger --Dwight

10-18-2021, 10:35 PM	#17
spangy Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 606 Thanks: 2,964 Thanked 1,047 Times in 422 Posts	Yup ... I am annoyed for sure ... I have better things to do than justify my posts to those incapable of following them. And yes I am Canadian and very proud of it. I also love America and Americans as I don't believe in racism. __________________ Whoever said that "money can't buy you happiness" never bought a Luger. WTB - Take Down Lever & Trigger Plate (#90) for an Imperial Artillery.

10-18-2021, 10:53 PM	#18
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,139 Thanked 2,517 Times in 939 Posts	Hey Guy's Isn't there enough hate and discontent in this new world without having any of it in our forums ? Lets just enjoy our hobby and each other peacefully. Please Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

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10-15-2021, 12:42 AM	#2
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 633 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,136 Times in 376 Posts	That gun has certainly "been around".

10-15-2021, 02:10 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,669 Thanks: 768 Thanked 1,610 Times in 524 Posts	What happened to the other replies that were here earlier?

10-15-2021, 12:20 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,669 Thanks: 768 Thanked 1,610 Times in 524 Posts	After posting my comment, I realized that there is an identical post on the other Luger forum and that's the one that has many comments. Sometimes I get the two forums confused.

10-15-2021, 03:38 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	There are Luger variations which are so uncommon, and so difficult to authenticate, that I won't consider owning them--GL Lugers, Russian crossed rifles, etc.--because I simply don't have the background or experience to evaluate. The Death's Head pistols are in that category. However... This pistol began life as an LP08. After the war it was reworked into a standard P08 at some facility in or near Suhl: the commercial profs are those of he Suhl proof house. In 1953 the pistol was again reworked, this time by the East German Deutsche Volkspolizei (VoPo), as witnessed by the new barrel and barrel number and the DVP armorer's mark on the receiver. Thus, the removal of the chamber date and the addition of the Death Head stamp would of necessity have occurred at some point during the Weimar era. Its appearance after the initial rework and before the DVP rework is historical evidence that the Death Head organization was definitely of the Weimar period. Its appearance on an East German pistol reworked from storage is convincing evidence of its period application. I am sufficiently convinced of its authenticity that I considered buying it. At three days before the auction its online bid surpassed my maximum, so I reluctantly passed. --Dwight

10-15-2021, 09:44 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,030 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 3,860 Times in 1,183 Posts	Keep things civil, please.

10-18-2021, 11:38 AM	#11
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Always wondered about the actual definition of "expert" and how one actually achieves that status. I have seen some who have assumed it, but the question of actual legitimacy remains. Civility rules, though.

10-18-2021, 03:06 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,030 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 3,860 Times in 1,183 Posts	Can we drop the 'expert' remarks and go back on topic? (And stay on topic). Thanks.

10-18-2021, 11:59 PM	#19
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 633 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,136 Times in 376 Posts	I would propose that if you have more than say, 3 Lugers, then it has gone beyond "hobby". More of an addiction. But what do I know? I probably shouldn't throw stones in my glass house.